Roxy Music Live - S/D

Manifesto's the only Roxy album that exists in its own space. It has nothing much to do with its successors: it's Roxy's attempt at an L.A. studio rock album with disco overtones -- say, Ned Doheny or Nicolette Larson.

Part of what makes "Dance Away" work like hell is how it sounds like Player or Doobie Brothers but those dissonances -- the bass part, Manzanera's guitar parts -- keep interfering.

I could say a lot in defence of Manifesto, but one thing that pleases me is that Ferry is writing break-up songs with a sense of humour rather than the usual brooding. It's like the dark clouds of The Bride Stripped Bare have receded for awhile.

Dow OTM re: Manifesto as their idea of the new mainstream. The title track is one of their best lp openers, and all of side one is great.

Did Pell Mell cop Rhyming Guitars from the chorus?

i've always thought Manifesto was stronger than Flesh & Blood - which is pretty strong for a band's weakest LP - just lose the covers etc

maybe they couldn't get the F&B track listing to work but spare a thought for 'Lover' - surely one of the best songs ever squandered on a b-side (and the Miami Vice soundtrack LP) - really nails the perfectly languid drift of their late sound (which feels like it has roots in the middle section of If There Is Something?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQA-oIbjbr4

F&B, their weakest album, is interesting: I can hear on tracks like "Rain Rain Rain" Ferry figuring out how to use synths (its loping quasi-reggae rhythm anticipates where Brit electrofunk would go by at least four years). Maybe their greatest run of singles ("Over You," "Same Old Scene," "Oh Yeah" [ugh]) but weakest album tracks.

I've always thought of "Flesh + Blood" as essentially a transitional Ferry solo album. His previous solo albums more or less reflected the sound and weirdness of Roxy (whose members always featured), and then along comes "The Bride Stripped Bare," which is the first solo Ferry with all session dudes, setting the stage for slickness to come. You get to "Manifesto," then particularly "Flesh + Blood," and that plus "Avalon" is basically the template for the all session dude era Ferry to come. Which is cool, because after a decade of doing new wave before there was a new wave ("Over You" is basically Roxy hearing the Cars doing Roxy and saying hold my martini), Ferry skips ahead once again to the '80s and makes everyone else play catch-up.

(I mean, "Flesh + Blood" *is* 1980, but unlike a lot of records from the time it actually sounds like that decade and not a remnant of the '70s.)

#1 twice in the UK at the dawn of the Blitz era

Yeah the high points on F+B are amazing but otherwise it's their only half-assed album (TWO covers!).

xxp I was actually thinking about this the other day, culturally and politically too, not just musically, but the '80s really began in 1981. Like imagining what it was like in 1980 from the political climate to the clothes to music to just home living, it doesn't feel like the '80s yet. Same with movies, the New Hollywood had its last hurrah in 1980 (Raging Bull in particular). The "creative executives" didn't take over until a year or two later.

Disagree! In America it took a while.

I'd say it took (a) MTV's penetration in 1983 (b) Reagan's climbing poll numbers. 1983 was the start.

England had New Pop. Their 1980s began chronologically.

1981-1982 in America were awful, still the '70s imo

Yeah, I remember (from my childhood) that the things people think of as being "totally '80s" didn't really kick in for a couple of years. Like,"Let's Dance," that wasn't until 1983. "Scary Monsters" was 1980, but that was very much in line with "Lodger." Or Talking Heads, I think people now have a conception of them as an '80s band, but "Speaking in Tongues" was also not until 1983, and while "Remain in Light" was 1980, it was very much in phase with its '70s Eno predecessors. A band like Devo, on the other hand, like Roxy had a sort of post modern view of everything; "Whip It" now sounds ahead of its time by a few years rather than being representative of 1980, the year it was released.

I dunno, probably bears more thinking.

(lol, total coincidence that every band I just cited has, like Roxy, an Eno connection.)

Dylan Jones' book on New Romanticism posits that by 1985 Bryan Ferry had weathered the 1980s better than Bowie. Given the success of Boys & Girls and how every smoothie with bad breath apes his tailor, I'd say he's right.

LOL. What a strange time.

Is it just me or did the '80s and the '90s (the alternative era) make the '00s look a lot less remarkable from a cultural standpoint? I'm not knocking the quality of what was being created, but it feels like the '80s and the '90s at least had lots of things that visibly and immediately date it to that era, whereas I'm struggling to remember anything as distinctive about the '00s. There were definitely fashion trends, and we had the Iraq War going on, but even then the era doesn't really pop out in the same way. Maybe I just need it to recede further in the past? I keep thinking of something Richard Linklater said about Boyhood - when they made it, they were curious how things would change over 12 years, but they were kind of surprised how stable the culture seemed to be compared to other stretches of time.

Disagree! In America it took a while.

I'd say it took (a) MTV's penetration in 1983 (b) Reagan's climbing poll numbers. 1983 was the start.

England had New Pop. Their 1980s began chronologically.

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, September 16, 2022 12:24 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is otm. I was going to argue for 1982 being the start, in that "Don't You Want Me" was big, but that was an outlier among the Cougar-Mellencamps, J. Geilses, and non-playing motherfuckers like Steve Miller. And while "Hungry Like The Wolf" was a big radio hit in the US in 1982, it didn't hit its chart peak until early '83, and only because it was re-released the previous December. The original June '82 release did nothing here.

I want to say 1982 just because of 1999 and Thriller - that's like a blueprint for where R&B and pop was going to go in the '80s. Paul McCartney's Tug of War screams '80s to me, especially compared to his '70s work, and that's 1982 as well. Springsteen's Nebraska is all about what Reaganism was doing to America. Lou Reed's The Blue Mask feels very NY 1980s to me. It's at least where the transition was becoming much more clearer.

wrt Thriller, it wasn’t released until the end of November, 1982. As with 1999 (released only a month earlier), I feel like its impact wasn’t widely felt until 1983.

You can still see things that led up to them, even in the previous year (1981) in either Prince's own work, Rick James or even stuff like Hall & Oates's own music ("I Can't Go for That" feels like the rhythmic precursor of "Billie Jean"). Again, I'm saying it's at least where the transition is pretty visible.

Hmm, I don't associate The Blue Mask or Nebraska with the '80s at all, at least not sonically. Thematically, sure. But even then, nowhere near as much as (later) BitUSA and New York

Eliminator (the ultimate 'Boomer Goes New Wave' record) was March '83.

But yeah, the transition was already in place, probably as far back as "Cars" (late '79, iirc), or at the success of eventual tourmates the Police and especially the Go-Gos (who could have only broken through when they did).

I wouldn't even tie Nebraska to any decade sound-wise - but I strongly associate it with the '80s because of what it has to say about that decade, and for me that's more than enough. It probably does a better job of it than any other album I know, even more than Born in the USA.

I remember seeing massive displays in mall record stores — in Omaha, no less — for Nebraska, and even though I didn’t hear the record until two years later, for that memory alone I can only associate it with the ‘80s.

The irony is that much of Born In The U.S.A. — including the title track — was recorded before Nebraska. Imagine sitting on that song for two years, not realizing how insanely perfect the timing of its eventual release would be.

(To clarify: much of BITUSA was recorded before Nebraska was released.)

MJ is 1983 very much.

I love every mincing millisecond of this thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg-Yte9X1go

Eliminator (the ultimate 'Boomer Goes New Wave' record) was March '83.

There were some lead-ups to Eliminator. Both the J Geils Band and REO Speedwagon had massive albums in 1981/1982 by turning down the 70s boomer rock/guitar solos and turning up the new wave pop. A lot of 70s bands back then (if they were still around) were all-hands-on-deck to boost sales and if it meant new wave-ish pop then so be it.

I think of the early 80s as when you start seeing new bands who were obviously listening to Roxy Music and then running past what Roxy was doing concurrently (it's interesting reading this thread as the New Gold Dream thread was revived for its 40th anniversary)

And while "Hungry Like The Wolf" was a big radio hit in the US in 1982, it didn't hit its chart peak until early '83, and only because it was re-released the previous December. The original June '82 release did nothing here.

As mentioned earlier MTV really was *the* hegemonic force across the country. "Girls On Film" was a massive KROQ hit here in Los Angeles but zilch outside of broadcast range.

Both the J Geils Band and REO Speedwagon had massive albums in 1981/1982 by turning down the 70s boomer rock/guitar solos and turning up the new wave pop.

J. Geils, definitely. But REO? I fail to hear anything remotely “new wave pop” in “Take It On The Run,” “Keep On Lovin’ You,” or “Keep The Fire Burnin’.” To me, they’re a kind of nadir of adult contemporary boomer rock that flourished in the uncanny valley of 1981 US top 40 radio (see also: Styx, Dan Fogelberg, John Lennon’s “Woman,” Christopher Cross, and the Climax Blues Band).

A story I heard regarding REO’s radio/chart success at that time was that the management of labelmates the Clash went to one of the bigger/more influential radio stations in the US and asked their program director, “What the hell? Why are you playing this REO crap instead of Sandinista?” The radio guy said, “Their managers gave us cocaine. You didn’t.”

This right here, here's the 1980s being born:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keKySy4z6wc

My favorite from that album. IIRC, there is an incredible live version on TV of Flesh and Blood where Manzanera goes off but I haven’t been able to find it again.

At the Boston show, in the middle of Remake/Remodel, two plobby guys about 30y/o stood up from the jump in front of our section – when the boomer woman in front of us asked them to sit down he turned around and said, “I paid for these seats. Go fuck yourself.” At which point her husband started furiously and aggressively pumping his middle fingers (from a seated position) and they got up and complained (and got moved I think). The two plobby obnoxious guys eventually sat down and started … hugging affectionately for the rest of the show? The whole thing was completely bizarre.

As for the show, the irreconcilable nature of early and later Roxy was never more obvious IMO. In addition to an older crowd that seemed to know (and prefer) the Avalon-era material, bc all of those songs had been adapted to a lower key they felt somewhat less convincing (tho still perfectly enjoyable). The s/t material was stunningly good – Ladytron and If There Is Something in particular had a Bryan Ferry Psychedelic Jazz Quartet vibe to them that was wonderful. Ferry was good, I loved him seated at his electric piano with all the swirling atmospherics, but Manzanera and Mackay were just terrific.

There is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIRWJr1l1pI

Yep!

One of the best attributes of Manzanera's playing is that he's rarely flashy even when he's got more going on. In a way kind of ego-less, happy to cede space to the sonics and effects in service of the song. Kind of an anti-guitar hero a la such peers and successors as Andy Summers (who is truly gifted) and the Edge (who is not).

I was trying to identify the caveman they have playing drums in that clip (Allan Schwartzberg?), but then I came across this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q1JKqwtgwM

Mimed or no, Bryan Ferry with a guitar! Steve Goulding (from the Rumour/Mekons) on drums!

Ferry played real guitar on "Flesh and Blood," but it doesn't mean I wanna see him holding one.

One of the best attributes of Manzanera's playing is that he's rarely flashy even when he's got more going on.

Even on "Remake/Remodel", where he's basically soloing through the entire song, there's something modest about it - "this song needs non-stop lead guitar, I will provide".

he tried but he could not find a way iirc

Been a while since I've heard it, but really enjoyed 801's Live, with Mananzera, Eno & Co. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOG7SfERU0k
That's an LP; there's also more of a CD-length rehearsal of that set posted here and there, dunno how it is. Didn't get into their studio album, Listen Now so much: was okay, but more on the broody Floydian side. Also didn't get into the one by his prog band, Quiet Sun, but some of my friends did. Oh, I did like his Diamond Head!

Oho, here's Andy MacKay's In Search of Eddie Riff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap9G9z-AeZM

Was disappointed in their Roxy-ish pop Explorers venture; mainly what tipped the scales was an off-putting, off-brand Ferry clone (aptly named James Wraith). One after that was billed as Manzanera-MacKay, didn't listen.

Your collective strategery paid off: bought secondhand nosebleed seats last week (though not the worst I could get) for about $80 a pop (after taxes/fees), got to the venue tonight and we were upgraded to awesome $175 face value seats, from the 300 level to 100. I had a hunch when I saw that Ticketmaster had greyed out all these seats that were for sale just a week ago that the upgrades some of you had seen or experienced would be in effect tonight, too.

Band was good, setlist was good, Ferry sounded good enough, everyone was into it, though I am always a little sad/suspicious when every musician has a double. Reminds me of when the saw the Beach Boys 50th anniversary tour and there were as many as 7 or 8 guys holding guitars on stage and I thought, come on ...

St Vincent did indeed kill it tonight. Annie Clark's current ott rock star persona was perfected suited to the occasion. She was having a blast, and I bet she made some new fans.

I would argue that Thompson technically didn’t have a double, and the auxiliary percussionist was largely unnecessary (and often barely audible).

And looking back (all I did was look away), I realize that all the Roxy Music I ever heard on the radio was on WXRT, and it was a regular occurrence.

The percussionist was keeping time for the whole band but also afaict triggering a lot of pads arrayed to look like regular percussion. He was often barely audible because he was often doubling (thickening, mostly) Thompson's snare and tom hits. Not that Thompson was bad or anything, just needed a little juicing. Same with Mackay; there were lots of times the other player was perfectly matching his sax and oboe stuff, to help him out a bit. Again, no biggie: Bryan gets three singers (and thee keyboard players) to help him out, so why not the others?

I was surprised they skipped "Virginia Plain," given the anniversary nature of it all.

Ferry played real guitar on "Flesh and Blood," but it doesn't mean I wanna see him holding one.

Requires a 'apart from on the For Your Pleasure gatefold spread' qualifier imo.

Seeing them in Manchester next month. I haven't been over-excited - I generally avoid arenas and big reunions, even (especially?) for a band this dear to me, but a friend suggested it as a reason to visit. Now though, getting cautiously optimistic.

I know I saw them in 2001, but it's one of those shows that for whatever reason I can't remember a single thing about it except for the venue and where I was sitting. Oh, and seeing Jon Langford there.

And I guess he was back again! (With Alan Doughty of Waco Brothers/Jesus Jones)

https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/308050326_5817507248301628_7110603320778770001_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=sbP3Uz-C6dgAX_oQQXj&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AT_geOd0MQXA-o5WLeX7DgxlNp3RyBzqtHDA06F1haN06w&oe=632E65A8

Nice!

FWIW Hugo Burnham also posted this

there were as many as 7 or 8 guys holding guitars on stage and I thought, come on ...

Guy behind Mike Love was the only surplus player, and as Love had brought just two musicians from his band (this dude who is his bandleader, and his fucking great drummer) was almost certainly there to collaborate on arrangements, not to substitute for inadequacies among Brian’s players.

(Jardine strummed acoustic on just a handful of songs, probably as an aide-mémoire, and David Marks was lifted in the mix for solos.)

This made me laugh…

Last night at Roxy Music a friend reported that a dude on the floor was dancing & having a grand time until a very slow song & then he yelled “THIS IS WHY BRIAN ENO LEFT” which is both hilarious and not incorrect

September 20, 2022

Last night at Roxy Music a friend reported that a dude on the floor was dancing & having a grand time until a very slow song & then he yelled “THIS IS WHY BRIAN ENO LEFT” which is both hilarious and not incorrect

— Caryn Rose (@carynrose) September 20, 2022

Eno was on several slow ones on the first album.