Rolling Teenpop 2007 Thread

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I am a fan of this thread and the whole teen pop thread crew but buying Teen magazine etc is really a bit far gone

― A B C, Thursday, 5 April 2007 08:01 (nineteen years ago)

being gay is handy for sidestepping the whole perv thing, though it always amazes me when the accusations come from people who don't stint on the creepiness when it comes to indie-friendly girls or women, from smoosh to cat power and meg white

that poster in your bedroom from when you were 15

haha dude is old and hasn't got over it. i have only heard one original cure song btw (and that was on the diplo fabric mix of all things)

― lex pretend, Thursday, 5 April 2007 08:31 (nineteen years ago)

i don't know if people found it creepy when i was all like "mmm twink r'n'b" about chris brown, or when i talk about mcfly (whose appeal is entirely because two of them are hott, not beause of their music), though. i tend not to like too much teenpop by boys. well, there's not a great deal OF it, and what there is, is very...teenage boyish, ie either dumb toilet humour or emo whinings, both of which kind of repulse me.

― lex pretend, Thursday, 5 April 2007 08:33 (nineteen years ago)

I'll freely admit that loads of what I like about music is ALSO (i.e. not ALWAYS, and never ALL) about sex, or desire, or what Freudians call 'transference' (when you project a particular desire onto your analyst, and this becomes part of the therapeutic process, and yes that makes music my analyst, rather than the other way round). And I think people thought it was odd that I had a picture of Billy Piper c. 'Because We Want To' up on my wall for ages when I was working on my phd, but they probably thought I was weird anyway. But I don't know if that helps. Kelly Clarkson I definitely think is hot but JoJo not -- maybe something is policing all this in my head.

― byebyepride, Thursday, 5 April 2007 09:14 (nineteen years ago)

i think the thing policing that is jojo's unattractive blocky lego head!

― lex pretend, Thursday, 5 April 2007 09:24 (nineteen years ago)

My understanding of the Pitchfork news section is that it was a kind of 'pay yer dues' area for people who wanted to graduate to proper Pfork reviews. I don't know if it still works that way. My impression of the Ashlee/Robert Smith piece is of someone working very hard to get a particular style right and not even thinking about thinking through the content.

I really hate everything I've heard by the Cure since the 80s ended so I did indeed think AS working with RS was a WTF deal, but only because I expected her to have more sense.

― Groke, Thursday, 5 April 2007 09:30 (nineteen years ago)

The Pfork piece also neatly illustrates the need fans have (not just indie or non-mainstream fans) to believe or assume that the musicians they admire think in the same compartments they do.

― Groke, Thursday, 5 April 2007 09:35 (nineteen years ago)

The last album by the Cure is THE SINGLE WORST CD I HAVE EVER HEARD, now I think about it. Except inevitably typing that has made me want to hear it. I nearly broke up with C after she insisted on playing it in the house, like 3 times or something. Fair enough she had paid money for it, but still.

― byebyepride, Thursday, 5 April 2007 11:24 (nineteen years ago)

I am a fan of this thread and the whole teen pop thread crew but buying Teen magazine etc is really a bit far gone

I thought so too, which is why I didn't buy it. But I'm not sure why I thought it was more far gone than anything else I do.

― Greg Fanoe, Thursday, 5 April 2007 13:25 (nineteen years ago)

Nia, aren't Hanson older than you?

Isaac is, and Taylor technically (by one month), but Zac is two years younger. I don't get the same reaction if I talk about their "grown-up" albums.

― Nia, Thursday, 5 April 2007 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

i find the idea of timbaland working with ashlee far more disheartening, but interestingly so. disheartening because 1) i have finally 'got' ashlee's genius, and in my mind it goes in a completely different and possibly mutually exclusive direction to timbaland's (i find even the original of 'l.o.v.e' horribly clumsy and gauche, let alone the missy remix), and 2) timba himself is rather slappable currently. interesting because, despite all of that, ashlee and timba are still great people.

― lex pretend, Thursday, 5 April 2007 15:39 (nineteen years ago)

[url=[Removed Illegal Link] Sugar Shock column at Stylus[/url

― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 5 April 2007 17:36 (nineteen years ago)

Fuck's sakes: http://stylusmagazine.com/articles/pop_playground/sugar-shock-009-its-a-hair-thing.htm is Dave Moore's latest edition of Sugar Shock at Stylus, quite good piece about the role of hair in modern teenpop. Misses out on its usage in the video for 'Girlfriend', though, which is a bit of a surprise.

― William Bloody Swygart, Thursday, 5 April 2007 17:37 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, final version needed a haircut (yuk) as it was, but otherwise I woulda used Avril as an example of brunette to blonde implications, which seems to be rarer than the other way around in teenpop (though maybe Britney did this? But as I say, it is, or maybe was, different with Britney, the hair color didn't carry so much symbolic baggage for her). Funny that Avril does the opposite of Hilary, she's out to prove she's fun. Which isn't all that fun, kind of annoying really (just heard from Jimmy Draper that there's a LOT of "Girlfriend"ish material on the new one, so this is probably about as much of an overarching album/personality statement as Hilary).

― dabug, Thursday, 5 April 2007 21:54 (nineteen years ago)

and how about the redheaded title character in that video!?

lindsay's red-to-blonde, of course - not sure what to make of that (xcept i like her way more as red) - who else is redhead teenpop that i'm not thinking of?

― rossoflove, Friday, 6 April 2007 02:07 (nineteen years ago)

okay, so i came home from work the other day, intending to write a long-in-the-works blog post about recent indie (which should finally be posted later tonight - it includes a podcast that might serve as a useful roundup of some recent stuff in that vein for those who were expressing curiosity upthread) and got sidetracked in an extended and wide-ranging (mostly teen-)pop conversation with my roommate. he'd just returned from orlando, where he was hanging out with his nephews, aged 8 and 10, who knew all the words to all the current chart hits (he also turned them on to "neon bible" and soon they were annoying their parents with that too.)

this inspired him to look up the current billboard hits and itunes most downloaded lists - it was interesting for me to approach this stuff from the perspective of what's actually hitting the charts (which i'm usually oblivious to unless you guys mention it here), instead of just checking out and consuming the music as i encounter it on my own - and we spent a good while watching videos on mtv.com (so much better than youtube - quality-wise!)

for a long time we were debating the merits of "girlfriend" - he didn't like it, and complained about avril's new style (he might have even said something about her "selling out," which i just think is funny although it almost makes sense) and not liking the style of the track (the vocal processing in particular) - though i played him some skye (esp. "hypocrite"), which he liked a lot. (he said it made him like the avril less to know it was ripping off her style.) but i think after a while we realized that what really turned him off from the song was the fact that he'd first been exposed to it through the video.

which i have to say is understandable - the vid is appropriately day-glo trashy, but it sort of just makes avril seem really mean. whereas the song itself doesn't really have that much to say about the girlfriend (it writes her off with a couple lines - she's like, so whatever - and goes on to talk about avril herself almost exclusively - we don't even learn much of anything about the boyfriend.) the video, on the other hand, makes it seem like the song is all about vindictively degrading av's competitor. (and yes, her bitchiness is clearly part of the point. but we're sensitive guys in this apartment, and we like our pop stars to behave like decent, respectful individuals. or something.)

― rossoflove, Friday, 6 April 2007 02:19 (nineteen years ago)

Just read Freakonomics, which was disappointing in a whole lot of ways, main one being that it didn't actually detail the methods of statistical analysis that were used, so there was nothing about the process of discovery, just the results. But at the end it did have a whole section on trends in children's first names. Said that it made no difference one way or another to a person's success or failure in life whether he was given an apparently appropriate or apparently inappropriate name. But names were something of a social marker, so you could predict some things on the basis of a person's name (not because the name had an effect, but because the parents' socioeconomic position had an effect, and child names and parent socioeconomic position were correlated). Anyway, the authors also said that fashions in names were not celebrity driven - that Shirley Temple and Britney Spears were examples of trends, not causes of them. There was a name that made one of their lists (The Twenty "Whitest" Boy Names, the information being gathered in California a couple of years ago) that contradicts this, however, though they drew no attention to it: Dylan. There's simply no way that that name is not celebrity driven at the start.

But anyway, here's a list that I enjoyed:

THE TWENTY "BLACKEST" GIRL NAMES:

1. Imani
2. Ebony
3. Shanice
4. Aaliyah
5. Precious
6. Nia
7. Deja
8. Diamond
9. Asia
10. Aliyah
11. Jada
12. Tierra
13. Tiara
14. Kiara
15. Jazmine
16. Jasmin
17. Jazmin
18. Jasmine
19. Alexus
20. Raven

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 6 April 2007 04:32 (nineteen years ago)

"Spelled like Dylan Thomas?" "No, like Bob Dylan."

― da croupier, Friday, 6 April 2007 04:45 (nineteen years ago)

Lex, I love "L.O.V.E." - the chorus anyway - but I think it's generally beside the point in relation to what I love about Ashlee. And I agree that the Missy remix is a botch. And I too have trepidation about Ashlee working with Timbo since I'd hate her to try and be either an r&b bitch or an r&b vixen. The one and only Ashlee song that I'd actually say I dislike is a Japan-only track called "Get Nasty" which is just grating: "Get nasty, ah ah, get nasty aww." But another Japan-only track, "Fall In Love With Me," is wonderfully warm and sweet, and it's a gentle reggae track whose only flaw is that the rhythm accompaniment doesn't have enough of a dance to it. And I love Ashlee's singing on "Burnin' Up," which is a dub-r&b sendup, humorous but also having a subtly ambitious vocal line that's like a poppified variant of "Habañera" from Carmen. Again, the main drawback is clumsiness in the accompaniment. So this is something Timbaland could do, add some motion, if only he'd have the good sense to turn off his trademark weirdness and keep his mouth away from the microphone. (In Timbaland's "Give It To Me" Nelly Furtado delivers her most fetching vocals ever, and the atmosphere is both inventive and melancholy. But Timbo's own vocals are an ugly pain, and I wish someone would create a mix that erases them.)

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 6 April 2007 05:10 (nineteen years ago)

In the late '80s and early '90s the Australian Smash Hits used to pay me $100 a month to buy and send them teen magazines - Bop and Tiger Beat and Hit Parader etc. No one gave me a second glance when I bought them. I can imagine that reading those magazines on a plane might confuse the passenger next to me, however.

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 6 April 2007 05:23 (nineteen years ago)

Also, are the lyrics actually saying she's as serious as gravy? Is gravy really serious?

gravy is not serious. appropriate adjectives to use in similes with "gravy": heavy, thick, tasty, and good. however, "crazy" is not very serious either. "cancer" is serious, as we learned from rakim (who compared it to "a question" - and then didn't even rhyme it with answer, that's how good a rapper he was!) however, "cancer" doesn't rhyme with "babies." you know what disease does though? "rabies." now that's serious!

― rossoflove, Friday, 6 April 2007 05:29 (nineteen years ago)

Got the Jordan Pruitt CD from the library and I'm loving every second of it. I was saying upthread that the songs might not be up to her voice; that's even less of a concern to me now than it was then, since the songs are there to serve the voice rather than vice versa, and the arrangements give her voice the space it needs. The r&b songs seemed a bit wrong when I heard them on her MySpace. Now they sound fine. "We Are Family" sounds fine. She sounds good doing aches, she sounds good doing glides, she sounds good rooting her phrasing in the words, she sounds good scatting, she sounds good singing plain, she sounds good doing melisma. She doesn't overdo anything; it all sounds coherent, never forced. I'm not really conveying what it's like. Don't know how. She's 15 and is one of the most skilled singers in the world. That's ridiculous.

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 6 April 2007 06:03 (nineteen years ago)

Frank, I'm still loving the Jordan Pruitt CD too. In fact, now I can say that it almost definitely will make my top 10 of the year. But I still have the same problem, which is that I love the singing and the lyrics but find myself wishing the songs had stronger hooks.

OK, here's my attempt to convey what it's like: The joyful songs make me wanna jump up and down and the sad songs make me wanna cry. It runs an entire range of emotions in the lyrics and her singing is absolutely perfect, both in terms of sounding beautiful and in terms of interpretation and performance. She can sell drama and sell sadness and sell joy. Her voice sounds amazing and it still sounds convincingly "teen". She can inject a heartbreaking twang ("OLI"), or a forceful smash ("No Ordinary Girl") or a joyful lilt ("Jump to the Rhythm"). She makes it look easy. Her vocal performance on "Outside Looking In" was my favorite vocal performance of 2006. And it doesn't even stand out as particularly great on the album, which is crazy.

The lyrics are overdramatic and messy and not at all deep and literary and intellectual like Ashlee's are. They are conversational and teenage and just spot on. They could have just been ripped straight from a teenager's diary. It manages to be confessional, but there's only 2 breakup songs! There's a pervasive feeling of "me against the world". It's fairly thematically consistent, but mostly a big ball of contradictions and messes. (I guess I'm the only person who loves the lyrics though. Me against the world!)

If this album had better hooks to the songs it would be my favorite album since Breakway, at least. As it stands now it will be in my top 10 but most likely not number one.

Well that's my attempt.

― Greg Fanoe, Friday, 6 April 2007 12:16 (nineteen years ago)

And I just wanna say that I still really expect a stone cold confessional classic in Pruitt's future, the album that this almost is.

― Greg Fanoe, Friday, 6 April 2007 12:19 (nineteen years ago)

A scan of an amusing survey filled out by Carrie Underwood for Cosmo:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/Mauraks310/cosmopage3.png

― Greg Fanoe, Friday, 6 April 2007 13:28 (nineteen years ago)

I need to listen to Jordan's CD (haven't heard it yet), but anyone who hasn't heard Kristy Frank should check out her CD from last year. Forget the name of the CD, but it's excellent and she has a great voice. Seems more bubblerock than Jordan's stuff I've heard, but she's got big R&B chops.

― dabug, Friday, 6 April 2007 19:26 (nineteen years ago)

(CD's called Freedom, Myspace is [url=[Removed Illegal Link], little bit of twang to her voice, too)

― dabug, Friday, 6 April 2007 19:28 (nineteen years ago)

grrrr http://myspace.com/kristyfranks

― dabug, Friday, 6 April 2007 19:28 (nineteen years ago)

(and when I say big R&B chops, I don't mean she sounds R&B at all. Uh, big ballad chops? What's the non-r&b equivalent chopwise?)

― dabug, Friday, 6 April 2007 19:29 (nineteen years ago)

Why is the myspace Kristy Franks when her name is Kristy Frank?

― Greg Fanoe, Friday, 6 April 2007 19:37 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, that's really weird.

― dabug, Friday, 6 April 2007 20:02 (nineteen years ago)

Skye w/ Rancid, "Who Would've Thought" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC70bAPl4Bg...seems like it's a little low for her, fun song tho.

― dabug, Friday, 6 April 2007 20:12 (nineteen years ago)

I xeroxed the interview Cosmo did with Ashlee in late '05; quiz was shorter than the Carrie but more revealing ("I've been in love: a. Once. Ryan!" [This was after they'd broken up.] "The three most important things in my purse are: American Express Card, Lip Gloss, Sunglasses" [though I will never again be able to think about Lip Gloss without remembering Hazel's saying over in Jukebox "its only purpose being to make your face sticky and give you the appearance of having had some terrible glass-blowing accident"]) Cosmo interviews remind me of what Lester Bangs once said about Eric Burdon; they're irrefutably short. But she got some good lines in: "Q: What's a red flag for you with guys? A: When he has Us Weekly at his house. Q: What body part are you happiest with? A: My boobs. I have amazing boobs. I do. I know it."

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 6 April 2007 21:02 (nineteen years ago)

I wish someone would create a mix that erases them

rossoflove did this very thing on his '06 mixtape (sort of...he basically just cuts it off after Nelly).

The part w/ Nelly: http://www.snapdrive.net/files/169338/OhSixFirstHalf.mp3

The part w/o Nelly: http://www.snapdrive.net/files/169338/OhSixSecondHalf.mp3

― dabug, Friday, 6 April 2007 21:12 (nineteen years ago)

(woop, Timbo's still on it a little. But he fades out into Spank Rock.)

― dabug, Friday, 6 April 2007 21:23 (nineteen years ago)

Ignore this post (I'm just checking to see if Stevie Nicks is like a cat in the dark or if she is the darkness< > ' " ` ! { }) (actually, testing to see what will cause an Illegal Link).

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 6 April 2007 23:39 (nineteen years ago)

I'm listening to Jordan Pruitt's "We Are Family." I assume she knows nothing of the song's gay subtext, so the subtext and the sadness of AIDS isn't the reason there's a hint of melancholy in the way her voice sometimes descends and breaks. That's just how she sings. And the deep pounds from the drums are there because Keith Thomas felt that deep pounds made sense in relation to the overall sound, I assume. But the pounds and breaks are there, so I go to the track more for something deep and haunting than for the celebration. Or for the celebration of something deep and haunting.

(*I'm surmising based on her association with Robin Scoffield and the manner of her tribute to God in the album credits that Jordan is an evangelical Christian, though I'm making a lot of not-necessarily correct assumptions, not just about her but about what her being evangelical would mean in regard to her attitude towards gayness [actually, my guess is that rank-and-file evangelicals are more conflicted about gays and gay rights than their antigay spokesmen are, and another guess is that the evangelical movement will be less unified on this issue in the next few years than it's been in the past].)

― Frank Kogan, Saturday, 7 April 2007 00:44 (nineteen years ago)

Excellent article about the pre-production through post-production stages (and more generally a tween-media think piece) in this weekend's NYT Magazine. It's not online yet, but I'll link it when it is...it really sidesteps almost all of the condescending/cynical approaches that ruined a lot of HSM coverage (probably because Nick is like the "benevolent conglomerate" to Disney's Death Star).

― dabug, Saturday, 7 April 2007 15:55 (nineteen years ago)

*pre through post-production of a new Nick sitcom.

― dabug, Saturday, 7 April 2007 16:02 (nineteen years ago)

Biggest teenpop news of the weekend: Tarantino namedrops Lindsay Lohan in his section of new exploitation double-feature Grindhouse. This is big big big big. If she's not in talks to do one of his movies within the year, I'll eat somebody's hat (I don't own any hats).

― dabug, Saturday, 7 April 2007 19:12 (nineteen years ago)

So anybody have any thoughts on "Nobody's Perfect" or "Make Some Noise"? I like them both OK but find them both comparatively mediocre to the best songs from Hannah's album.

― Greg Fanoe, Saturday, 7 April 2007 19:53 (nineteen years ago)

via email:

Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 22:14:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Mike Saunders"
Subject: anyone else been using the BUBBLEGUM DANCE site (eurodance a la AQUA etc) that went up this winter? 60+ acts already on there

http://www.bubblegumdancer.com/index.htm

i didn't see a single mention of this site on ILM (a couple weeks ago when i checked)
it's new, and went up maybe 3, 4 months ago (late 2006) put up by a NEW ZEALAND poppy-eurodance (ie, Aqua, Toy-box) fan.

who at long last and finally gave the far-left-wing-of-Eurodance (which always begrudgingly let Aqua/etc into the far fringe end of their dumb same-4-damn-chords-forever genre, included the style on their web sites/reviews/links etc) a proper name --

BUBBLEGUM DANCE

the site is like whoa

i stumbled across it when i was trudging through the ILM "europop" laundry list (several years old now) thread (looking up/auditing it song by song with YouTube...which takes 10 mintues/song to load on my fucking dial-up! soon to be replaced by DSL/AT&T when i finally buy a new hard drive with proper memory space required to drive a DSL)

and hit one great song with
Kim Lian's #1 2003 Dutch hit
TEENAGE SUPERSTAR
checked the bio on Wikipedia
then wandered into the full page by the guy who'd put up the song's video
(since 86'd by the major label(s), who seem to do their "Youtube purges" even
in Europe! jeez)
and that led me to the wonderfully daft/catchy

DJUMBO "Undercover"
ok, i checked THEIR Wikipedia bio and
but did it through Google, which is a good habit to have because then you notice the 2 or 3 links/lookups below the top Wikipedia google page you're going to

annnd there was the BUBBLEGUM DANCER site
just days later it disappeared, and its "cached" pages started to get mulched when Google was proceding into updating the same
no explanation given on the sites "message board"

but a few days ago it came back up!

the new world musical order has now officially begun

― xhuxk, Saturday, 7 April 2007 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

whoa that 'Rhiannon' video is incredible

also I looked up that beauteous little woman who was in the tim armstrong video someone posted. i'd bang her till her freckles fell off. she's legal, right?

― cankles, Saturday, 7 April 2007 19:55 (nineteen years ago)

"Teenage Superstar" in English by the original Dutch girl, Kim-Lian

"Teenage Superstar" in Spanish by Belinda

"Teenage Superstar" in Czech by Ewa Farner

― Frank Kogan, Saturday, 7 April 2007 20:43 (nineteen years ago)

The Pruitt record is more cohesive, driven by a greater singer/talent, and has more expressive lyrics, but it's just not the powerhouse of hooks that the Tisdale record is. Both are great, but Tisdale's is still the 2007 frontrunner for me.

― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 7 April 2007 22:15 (nineteen years ago)

Kim Lian's excellent "In Vain" got unfairly dismissed in the Jukebox back in the olden pre-blog days. http://youtube.com/watch?v=DoZZoLli8Ec

― dabug, Sunday, 8 April 2007 01:47 (nineteen years ago)

Matt, I may feel the way you do - at least that the best of the Tisdale is thrilling me in a way that the Pruitt isn't, though the worst of the Tisdale pales out in a way that the Pruitt doesn't, either.

Btw, though I worry that today's kiddie dance/r&b is generally more boring than the teen confessional stuff it seems to be displacing, the Pruitt album demonstrates that r&b and teen confessional are hardly incompatible.

― Frank Kogan, Sunday, 8 April 2007 05:22 (nineteen years ago)

whoa that 'Rhiannon' video is incredible

Like Grace Slick fronting the Yardbirds or the Velvets, but better.

― Frank Kogan, Monday, 9 April 2007 03:51 (nineteen years ago)

I'm disappointed by the new Hilary. The move to dance doesn't bother me conceptually, but the whole thing feels very lifeless, and the songwriting just isn't there. It's not bad by any means, and I enjoy it, but it's clearly my least favorite of her albums. After listening to it today, I listened to Metamorphosis, and was reminded of how strong that record is from start to finish: vital, loud, invigorating.

― Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:50 (nineteen years ago)

Three new songs up on Hope Partlow's MySpace page; accompanying herself on acoustic, overdubbing harmonies. Her singing is as strong and effortless as ever; I'd call the style singer-songwriter pop (whatever I mean by that). "Try" is about trying to break through to some guy she likes (an ex? a partner in a relationship that isn't working?); one can also read it as a metaphor for trying to break through in her singing career. [For newcomers to the teenpop and country threads, Partlow is a teenager with a wide vocal range and with breeze in her singing; had an album out on Virgin that didn't sell big, and shortly after it came out the fellow who'd signed her (I don't remember: was he the president of the company?) lost his job, and she was dropped by the label.] "Here To Stay" could be heard as a kissoff to an ex - "You don't know about, you don't care about, anything about me/So get out of my life, out of my way, I don't care what you say/I been losing this fight day after day, I'm now back in town, 'cause baby I'm here to stay" - but actually this one sounds as if it really is directed at the record biz. "When I signed up to play your little game/I never had expected it would turn out quite this way/You dresssed me up pretty, I was hangin' by the strings/Waiting waiting waiting for the next big thing/You don't know about, you don't care about..." My favorite of the three, "A Day In My Life," has a cabaret-style melody in the verse (that is, harkens back to '40s jazz pop) but sounds looser and less mannered than that implies; then the chorus is a rock 'n' roll type wailer, and the instrumental break goes into minor-key strumming while she puts forth with a bunch of Cossack "heys." Words are about how varied and interesting her life is, though they're not strong on specifics. I'd rank her melodies and words a bit above serviceable, except this ranking doesn't convey her ease and appeal, the knack she has for covering a lot of ground while appearing just to glide along. Whether she ever scores big hits or not, I still don't see how she can miss as a singer. She just does it too well.

― Frank Kogan, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 22:43 (nineteen years ago)

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