Post a controversial music opinion

I love Horses all the way through, but after that it’s slim pickings for me. But man, Horses is so fucking good. I love it when she goes into “DO YOU KNOW HOW TO PONEEEE”

But the sophistication and adventurousness, voodoo chili

someone should tell clem burke that he doesn't rock out

Am I the only person who admires Dream of Life?

Horses and Easter are my favorites (and are all-time great I think). More recently I've really liked Gone Again and Peace and Noise. I remember liking Dream of Life at the time, but as with a lot of 80s music I wonder how much I would in retrospect. Anyway she is a relic, in a good way

Yeah, Dream of Life wasn't a favourite of mine but I loved Gone Again and Peace and Noise.

Again, I think all of them are shit. Her mystique is shit, and JFC that song that she often ends her sets with (still?) is abhorrent. Her poetry is garbage, and she just won a $100,000 award for it. Repulsive person, repellant music.

I think you may be going a little far(?) I’m not a fan of her music myself, but everything I’ve heard about her as a person is that she’s really cool.

Gone Again was my intro, precipitating my purchase of Horses. Too long but "Beneath the Southern Cross" is a top five Smith ballad.

I think you may be going a little far(?) I’m not a fan of her music myself, but everything I’ve heard about her as a person is that she’s really cool.

Ian Penman's opinions on Patti largely mirror my own: https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v38/n09/ian-penman/ways-to-be-pretentious

table, how do you reconcile your admiration for Pound's Cantos and his anti-semitism (which pops up often in'em)? I'm not trying to zing. I want to understand how you weigh an artist's grotesqueries. Or is that you find Pound a more fascinating poet, thus requiring you to think about his offenses?

can’t express how much more i hate ian penman than patti smith

For the first half​ of the book, she had me: I happily surrendered. It was only when I got to the chapter featuring two people whose work I happen to know and love, Paul Bowles and Jean Genet, that the spell was broken. All of a sudden, this oddfellow’s odyssey didn’t feel quite so whimsical – it felt borderline exploitative, as though she was using these people, or their memory, to make herself look good

how offensive

penman literally the worst yet inexplicably most acclaimed music writer i’ve ever read

taking outlandish positions that are just like more extreme versions of received wisdom (the drop off between horses and radio ethiopia… imo it is not dramatic), sounding at all points like a total fucking gasbag who is in love with their correctness

i don’t even like patti’s memoirs! she’s a better performer than she is a writer. but that’s what i like about her, that’s the appeal, she makes the work work

The free outdoor concert I saw her give at Lincoln Center in 2016 was absolutely amazing. Fiery, political, fun. I was stunned.

Even her best albums are spotty.

(If you type ‘patti smith lyrics’ into Google, five of the eight most popular songs are on Horses, and one is ‘Because the Night’.)

Not sure what that's supposed to prove tbh. Why lyrics? Why eight? What if one album is more popular? Fwiw, of her top 10 songs on Spotify, only three are from Horses and "Because the Night" (from Easter) has almost six times the number of plays as the #2 song ("Dancing Barefoot" from Wave, not Horses).

Actually #3 is her "Smells Like Teen Spirit" cover. The top Horses song is "Gloria" at #4 and the #5 song is "People Have the Power" from Dream of Life.

I’ve known many people who dearly love Horses, but I can’t recall a single person ever declaring a passion for any of the other work, intermittent poetry and photography included.

like, also, dude has never met another rock critic in his life? and expressing in it a way that makes me want to give him a wedgie he can't recover from

With Horses criticism I always think of this old Reynolds bit

Better as an idea than a musical reality, I retort. "Land" is enduringly awesome, but most of the rest of it is, as Joe Carducci said, a rock critic's and a poet's vision of "rock'n'roll", and as such its rapid decline into Springsteen shlockodrama was predictable from the off. And the debut features one of the weakest stabs at white reggae ever—it makes The Members look like Jah Shaka.

Whereas it's one of the only NY punk albums I *do* genuinely like.

table, how do you reconcile your admiration for Pound's _Cantos_ and his anti-semitism (which pops up often in'em)? I'm not trying to zing. I want to understand how you weigh an artist's grotesqueries. Or is that you find Pound a more fascinating poet, thus requiring you to think about his offenses?

She embodies the best and worst elements of the Beats, the Doors, punk, etc. etc. so I can definitely understand why someone wouldn't like her but I kind of buy into her cult of personality when I would dismiss other artists trying to do something similar. My wife was quite moved by Patti's memoirs so her enthusiasm is something that I enjoy connecting with.

I haven't read Patti Smith's memoir. I did read Debbie Harry's, which I found eminently readable, funny and even moving in some parts. I vaguely remember a reference or two to Patti Smith in the book, but apparently they weren't memorable (unlike her encounter with, say, Iggy Pop and David Bowie). At any rate, I can respect Patti for carving her own path in a male-dominated field, but Debbie did the same thing with a hell of a lot more style.

I was actually at the Lincoln Center and Summerstage shows mentioned above - they really were amazing. The Lincoln Center show was right after the atrocious Trump rally/GOP convention calling for Clinton to be executed. Patti was furious about that, and when she capped off the show (I think "Gloria") she grabbed her guitar and screamed "EXECUTE THIS MOTHERFUCKER!" and unleashed a vicious wave of feedback. Again, this was outdoors on the UWS, so I'm sure plenty of residents heard it that evening.

I've only grown to love her music over the years. I have the same reservations about her memoir - I can see how it appeals to people who romanticize the LES but that's not me - and her albums generally aren't perfect, but at least five of them are overall good, and Horses is still a favorite. I think I posted this elsewhere, but she's kind of like the grandmother I wish everyone had. My parents would certainly hate her, but she'd be a good antidote to what's wrong with them.

*I have the same reservations others have about her memoir

I have the video of the very end of that Lincoln Center show on my phone. She ended it by saying, over thunderous music any 70 yo should be proud of, "People! Be strong! Be vigilant! Don't take any bullshit! Be good! Love one another! Motherfuckers!"

Please Kill Me came out in 1996 and upended all of that, bc Patti Smith came out of it looking kind of sketchy if not fraudulent and Blondie came out looking great.

Is this true? Because pretty much everyone (except maybe David Johansen) comes off terribly in that book, which is one of its "charms".

I haven't listened to enough Patti Smith to have an opinion either way on her entire output, but I think Ask The Angels (off Radio Ethiopia) is one of the *great* rock songs, just pure arrogant defiance in the midst of apocalyptic meltdown. "Rock and roll is what I'm born to be": an absolutely thrilling line in the context of the song.

I'm just glad this hasn't (yet) descended into the misogyny of the Patty Smyth vs. Patti Smith thread.

really loving this revive. several things coming up that put words to my feelings re:patti. i've never seen her live, but the sentiment that she's better in person than on record somehow makes perfect sense to me.

also this is a perfect insulting phrase for alltimes-

Springsteen shlockodrama

fun to say out, too.

*out loud

Another thing (and maybe this discussion should be taken to a Patti Smith thread) I loved about seeing Patti is the obvious warmth and affection she and Lenny Kaye have for each other. It really came through on stage and not as rehearsed banter of musicians but as the sort of small talk/looks a married couple might have after all that time.

man Burt Bacharach is some tepid overrated crowd-pleasing garbage, wtf y'all

absolutely do not get the appeal, novelty songs at best and cloying Hallmark sentimentality at worst

What the world needs now
Is drugs
Sweet drugs

He didn't write lyrics -- are you accusing the music of being sappy?

Bacharach co-wrote garbage during and after his peak period, but if you don't get what Dionne Warwick accomplished with "Walk On By" or Aretha with "I Say a Little Prayer," then, yeah, wtf

I have thankfully never investigated enough to be aware that he didn't write lyrics, that explains a lot but also begs the question of why he hitched his music to such terrible words

"Walk On By" is OK I guess, but remember I dislike most pop anyway

“do you know the way to San Jose” is basically prog rock

I won't go as far as sleeve, I find myself feeling impressed by the complex songwriting and Warwick's vocal prowess, but can't really connect with it beyond that.

david's lyrics are a notch above a lot of the pop chart pap of the era

that said, i will never like “what the world needs now is love,” yuck

the best fake Bacharach song is “going out of my head” but that’s probably not controversial l

when it comes to "Walk On By" it's Smith & Mighty > Sybil >>>> Gabrielle >>>>> Dionne

Sybil's version of "Don't Make Me Over" was my intro.

What do you get when you kiss a girl

You get enough germs to catch pneumonia

After you do, she'll never phone ya

“do you know the way to San Jose” is basically prog rock

― not too strange just bad audio (brimstead), Sunday, February 12, 2023 12:03 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

It also has some of the most devastatingly sad lyrics of any pop song, brilliant contrast with the deceptively cheery music.

taylor swift, bewyonce, drake and kendrick lamar aren't good

A challenging opinion

People call me rude
I wish we were all nude

phil spector is overrated, wall of sound was not a great and novel idea, be my baby would've been a massive tune with any production

his slurry is honestly a drag to listen to and takes way too much attention away from the performers (in the end product and in its critical reception)

phil spector is overrated, wall of sound was not a great and novel idea, be my baby would've been a massive tune with any production

― corrs unplugged, Monday, March 13, 2023 4:26 AM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Well, I agree with the third part of that