On the subject of Blondie, and perhaps this is a UK/US thing, but I've always thought of them as a pop band. Not a rock band. They're much better than that. Parallel Lines was produced and/or written by Mike Chapman. Their most popular singles were disco ("Heart of Glass", "Atomic"), pop-rap ("Rapture"), and reggae ("The Tide is High"). They did not quote rock out unquote. They were far too sophisticated and musically adventurous to be a rock band.
"Ah, but you think that pop is inferior to rock" - not at all. Completely the opposite. I'm British! I grew up with pop. It's in my lifeblood. From a British point of view - my point of view, which reflects that of each and every human being who lives and breathes on these islands - pop is king and rock is stupid. That's one of the reasons Iron Maiden etc were despised in the 1980s. Because they were rock. It's why people laughed at Bruce Springsteen and Dire Straits. They were rock and thus boring. Blondie were huge in the UK precisely because they were pop. The likes of Kansas, Boston, Bob Seger, Van Halen etc weren't popular in the UK because they were rock. Van Halen's debut album got to number 34 over here. 1984? Number 15
We had Adam Ant, Gary Numan, and Kate Bush, who were popular because they were interesting. Unlike Foreigner or The Knack. And then we had Culture Club and Duran Duran, and then you had Culture Club and Duran Duran because they stuck their stingers into MTV and poisoned the United States.
And so at least in the UK Parallel Lines is a classic album, but it's not a classic rock album. And that's a good thing.
― Ashley Pomeroy, Sunday, 11 September 2022 20:41 (one year ago) link
Unperson, I think you actually do get my point. There's a thriving metal scene here (alongside many others) and yet critics and ILXers are talking about... The Beths. Smh.
― The Ghost Club, Sunday, 11 September 2022 20:47 (one year ago) link
Each song has one idea that repeats throughout the whole song without much deviation
Apart from "Ananas Symphonie", which takes up most of Side 2.
― Buckfast At Tiffany's (Tom D.), Sunday, 11 September 2022 20:52 (one year ago) link
Actress should be treated with the same hyper obsessive fanboy regard as Boards of Canada
― Paul Ponzi, Sunday, 11 September 2022 21:15 (one year ago) link
I'm British! I grew up with pop. It's in my lifeblood. From a British point of view - my point of view, which reflects that of each and every human being who lives and breathes on these islands - pop is king and rock is stupid. That's one of the reasons Iron Maiden etc were despised in the 1980s. Because they were rock. It's why people laughed at Bruce Springsteen and Dire Straits. They were rock and thus boring. Blondie were huge in the UK precisely because they were pop. The likes of Kansas, Boston, Bob Seger, Van Halen etc weren't popular in the UK because they were rock. Van Halen's debut album got to number 34 over here. 1984? Number 15We had Adam Ant, Gary Numan, and Kate Bush, who were popular because they were interesting. Unlike Foreigner or The Knack. And then we had Culture Club and Duran Duran, and then you had Culture Club and Duran Duran because they stuck their stingers into MTV and poisoned the United States.
I was going to add "disco was also more respected by the old rock-crit establishment than AOR hard rock, fairly obviously" to my post but figured it would be too tangential - but, yep, hating rock is nothing new for rock critics.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Sunday, 11 September 2022 21:24 (one year ago) link
The back cover photo of Ralf and Florian jamming in a brick studio is a life goal
I like how they keep a pedal steel guitar handy, in case George Jones drops by.
Duran Duran pretty much emerged fully-formed, or at least almost fully-formed, Japan took ages to get their groove and had a relatively limited range
Because Duran Duran "emerged" from ripping off what Japan had done a year or two before...and every Japan album sounds different, even their "funk" was more propulsive and interesting than Duran's.
David Sylvian was unwilling to push his vocal range after the first Japan album
He was still hitting notes at the top of his range as late as the "European Son" single. Simon LeBon's voice is higher, though, if that counts for anything.
― Halfway there but for you, Sunday, 11 September 2022 21:26 (one year ago) link
"Ananas Symphonie"! Also it's a lap steel. Cluster had one at the same time. And so did Can.
― Buckfast At Tiffany's (Tom D.), Sunday, 11 September 2022 21:27 (one year ago) link
Didn't know Ulcerate are from NZ.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Sunday, 11 September 2022 21:28 (one year ago) link
Cluster's lap steel...
https://desertplanetmusic.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/cluster.jpeg
― Buckfast At Tiffany's (Tom D.), Sunday, 11 September 2022 21:29 (one year ago) link
Duran's debut and Rio don't sound like Japan.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 11 September 2022 21:41 (one year ago) link
Re: Patti Smith, mentioned upthread, I think she might be the single most overpraised and absolutely talentless “musicians” I’ve ever heard. I’ve tried dozens of times and dozens of albums, and my conclusion is always the same: Patti Smith sucks.
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Sunday, 11 September 2022 22:09 (one year ago) link
The arrangement on "Planet Earth" is practically cribbed from "Quiet Life"!
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 12 September 2022 17:28 (one year ago) link
table i got blasted for saying basically the same thing a year or so ago. love patti as a strong figure, but the music just isn't that good. fist bumps to you, friend.
on that note: morrissey's cover of "redondo beach" is better than patti's og.
― ミ💙🅟 🅛 🅤 🅡 🅜 🅑💙彡 (Austin), Monday, 12 September 2022 18:40 (one year ago) link
but also, fuck morrissey relentlessly.
I am not sure the pop/rock distinction holds much water any more.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 12 September 2022 18:45 (one year ago) link
I like a few of Patti Smith's tuneful songs like "Frederick", "Dancing Barefoot", "Redondo Beach", "Because the Night" but most of the big production numbers sound like the Doors without a sense of humour.
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 12 September 2022 18:46 (one year ago) link
I quote honestly think it's all terrible. How many times i had to fucking grit my teeth through 'Horses' when I was younger, thank god I stopped being friends with people who enjoy that shit.
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Monday, 12 September 2022 18:54 (one year ago) link
Candy Slice, on the other hand, will live for fucking ever.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 12 September 2022 18:59 (one year ago) link
'Horses' is ... idk ... charitably I would compare it to "camp"? ... I do like 'Free Money' a bit, but Tracy Chapman's 'Fast Car' is vastly superior imo
― sarahell, Monday, 12 September 2022 18:59 (one year ago) link
In other words, if I never heard Patti Smith's music again, I wouldn't mind.
― sarahell, Monday, 12 September 2022 19:01 (one year ago) link
...and also Andrea Martin as Patti Smith: "Inside of myself, I feel a scab... inside of myself, I feel caressed..."
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 12 September 2022 19:02 (one year ago) link
My controversial opinion is that I really like Patti Smith. Easter is my favourite.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, 12 September 2022 19:02 (one year ago) link
maybe if I had been born 10 years earlier than I was, I would feel about Patti Smith the way I do about Sinead O'Connor, in that, Lion and the Cobra is all time, despite other things ...
― sarahell, Monday, 12 September 2022 19:05 (one year ago) link
No way Smith never wrote anything as great a song as "Mandinka"
― sweating like Cathy *aaaack* (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 12 September 2022 19:19 (one year ago) link
<3
― sarahell, Monday, 12 September 2022 19:20 (one year ago) link
Not a big Smith fan at all, but I saw one of her first NYC comeback shows in the late 90s or early 2000s (can't remember now) and it was a weirdly joyous experience. I say "weirdly" because I usually don't go to the kind of shows where the audience is palpably love-bombing the performer onstage from beginning to end; I would compare it to seeing Perfume in 2014. But I don't ever, ever, ever listen to her records (owned Horses on cassette in high school, liked it a little; owned Radio Ethiopia at some point but never even made it to the end of the first side).
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 12 September 2022 19:21 (one year ago) link
Conflicted on Smith, but saw her at Summerstage last year and she was amazing, a force beyond anything I expected.
― bulb after bulb, Monday, 12 September 2022 19:35 (one year ago) link
I always liked using the word “Group” like Patti Smith Group Pat Metheny Group, it has an impersonal technical resonance to it, like an architecture studio or something lol
― brimstead, Monday, 12 September 2022 20:11 (one year ago) link
Donnie Wahlberg should burn more carpets
― Mr Haaland's Opus (Neanderthal), Monday, 12 September 2022 20:27 (one year ago) link
owned Radio Ethiopia at some point but never even made it to the end of the first side
Then you missed "Pumping," which is my favorite concise Patti rocker. The rest of that side gets pretty aimless and noodly though. I'm not a big fan at all, but I like bits and pieces of her first four albums (I wonder if I still even own Wave?)
― Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Monday, 12 September 2022 20:36 (one year ago) link
They did not quote rock out unquote. They were far too sophisticated and musically adventurous to be a rock band.
blondie does lots of things, but they are absolutely a rock band, especially on their first two albums
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Monday, 12 September 2022 20:50 (one year ago) link
I love Horses all the way through, but after that it’s slim pickings for me. But man, Horses is so fucking good. I love it when she goes into “DO YOU KNOW HOW TO PONEEEE”
― Cow_Art, Monday, 12 September 2022 20:54 (one year ago) link
But the sophistication and adventurousness, voodoo chili
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, 12 September 2022 20:56 (one year ago) link
someone should tell clem burke that he doesn't rock out
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Monday, 12 September 2022 20:58 (one year ago) link
Am I the only person who admires Dream of Life?
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 12 September 2022 21:10 (one year ago) link
Horses and Easter are my favorites (and are all-time great I think). More recently I've really liked Gone Again and Peace and Noise. I remember liking Dream of Life at the time, but as with a lot of 80s music I wonder how much I would in retrospect. Anyway she is a relic, in a good way
― Dan S, Monday, 12 September 2022 22:31 (one year ago) link
Yeah, Dream of Life wasn't a favourite of mine but I loved Gone Again and Peace and Noise.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, 12 September 2022 22:50 (one year ago) link
Again, I think all of them are shit. Her mystique is shit, and JFC that song that she often ends her sets with (still?) is abhorrent. Her poetry is garbage, and she just won a $100,000 award for it. Repulsive person, repellant music.
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Tuesday, 13 September 2022 01:55 (one year ago) link
I think you may be going a little far(?) I’m not a fan of her music myself, but everything I’ve heard about her as a person is that she’s really cool.
― mosh pit insurance agent (morrisp), Tuesday, 13 September 2022 02:02 (one year ago) link
Gone Again was my intro, precipitating my purchase of Horses. Too long but "Beneath the Southern Cross" is a top five Smith ballad.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 13 September 2022 02:05 (one year ago) link
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Tuesday, 13 September 2022 11:05 (one year ago) link
Ian Penman's opinions on Patti largely mirror my own: https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v38/n09/ian-penman/ways-to-be-pretentious
― fetter, Tuesday, 13 September 2022 12:26 (one year ago) link
table, how do you reconcile your admiration for Pound's Cantos and his anti-semitism (which pops up often in'em)? I'm not trying to zing. I want to understand how you weigh an artist's grotesqueries. Or is that you find Pound a more fascinating poet, thus requiring you to think about his offenses?
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 13 September 2022 12:54 (one year ago) link
can’t express how much more i hate ian penman than patti smith
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 13 September 2022 12:57 (one year ago) link
For the first half of the book, she had me: I happily surrendered. It was only when I got to the chapter featuring two people whose work I happen to know and love, Paul Bowles and Jean Genet, that the spell was broken. All of a sudden, this oddfellow’s odyssey didn’t feel quite so whimsical – it felt borderline exploitative, as though she was using these people, or their memory, to make herself look good
how offensive
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 13 September 2022 13:03 (one year ago) link
penman literally the worst yet inexplicably most acclaimed music writer i’ve ever read
taking outlandish positions that are just like more extreme versions of received wisdom (the drop off between horses and radio ethiopia… imo it is not dramatic), sounding at all points like a total fucking gasbag who is in love with their correctness
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 13 September 2022 13:10 (one year ago) link
i don’t even like patti’s memoirs! she’s a better performer than she is a writer. but that’s what i like about her, that’s the appeal, she makes the work work
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 13 September 2022 13:11 (one year ago) link
The free outdoor concert I saw her give at Lincoln Center in 2016 was absolutely amazing. Fiery, political, fun. I was stunned.
Even her best albums are spotty.
― Abel Ferrara hard-sci-fi elevator pitch (PBKR), Tuesday, 13 September 2022 16:20 (one year ago) link
(If you type ‘patti smith lyrics’ into Google, five of the eight most popular songs are on Horses, and one is ‘Because the Night’.)
Not sure what that's supposed to prove tbh. Why lyrics? Why eight? What if one album is more popular? Fwiw, of her top 10 songs on Spotify, only three are from Horses and "Because the Night" (from Easter) has almost six times the number of plays as the #2 song ("Dancing Barefoot" from Wave, not Horses).
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 13 September 2022 16:34 (one year ago) link
Actually #3 is her "Smells Like Teen Spirit" cover. The top Horses song is "Gloria" at #4 and the #5 song is "People Have the Power" from Dream of Life.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 13 September 2022 16:36 (one year ago) link