Covidiots in music

"not enough research" is the stand-in for "I dislike this abd can't elucidate why".

Same argument against GMOs.

When you ask how much more research would be satisfactory to prove its safe, they say "none. None more research."

(that isn't to say that there aren't things being done that truly haven't had enough cautionary exploration first, but every time that line gets tossed off, it's something that has been thoroughly researched

personally i think all of the scientists are "in on it"

Karl, follow the money and you will find the science -- at least that's what a meme I saw yesterday said

The fluoridation story is pretty fascinating and not as clear-cut as anyone would like it to be. Probably it's not doing any harm (you'd think we would know by now), but its benefits have also been exaggerated. The rise of universal tooth-brushing has almost certainly done more than anything else to reduce cavities and tooth decay, as lots of countries that don't do mass fluoridation have demonstrated.

https://origins.osu.edu/article/toxic-treatment-fluorides-transformation-industrial-waste-public-health-miracle

No dog in the fight but the one person who I knew who was anti-fluoride - she bought the Tom's toothpaste without the fluoride in it and was not avoiding it for what I consider the crazy reasons - rhetorically asked me why if fluoride was so beneficial, they didn't also put other beneficial chemicals in the drinking water, or vitamins, and I didn't have an answer for that. But that was twenty years ago and this is the very first time I have thought about it since so there is probably a very logical and scientific answer to this question

that is a good question

https://i.imgur.com/541sRoi.png

but let me ask THIS: who owns google?

*FOLLOW THE MONEY*

sorry paul, i realize now you're asking why they don't add other things to drinking water as well. it's harder to goog for that one

Yeah, I would think so. Especially if you don't want to accidentally introduce the most insane the internet has to offer to your browsing history

From the Straight Dope message board:
Why don’t they put vitamins in our drinking water?

A meaningful vitamin dose for an adult can kill a kid. Different people drink vastly different quantities of water

Other reasonable reasons suggested there too.

xp Ah, that makes sense! I actually had a doctor tell me once that I was taking too many vitamins because I was taking a multivitamin every morning and also supplementing that with additional vitamins for my veg diet, and vitamin D on rainy days.

Different people drink vastly different quantities of water

Does this suggest, though, that there is no such thing as a lethal amount of fluoride?

There are toxic doses of fluoride. But there's no way you could drink enough fluoridated water to even get close. Ironically, some naturally flouridated water does contain enough to cause toxicity. Leeches from granite rock, apparently.

Also eating lots of flouridated toothpaste can cause toxicity in children. Which is why you shouldn't eat toothpaste.

i found pointed out elsewhere that fluoridation of water also means regulation of fluoride in water, which matters in places where naturally occuring fluoride may be at higher levels.

Is there any way to get an effective (cavity-preventing) amount of fluoride solely through diet? Or is that unprovable? There are a lot of things our body needs that have no definitive minimum.

As an aside, another example of a “beneficial” additive program is iodized salt. (though I guess if you consider salt as a food product, you then get into vitamin enriched bread etc.)

(It’s also not strictly comparable to the public water supply, I know)

The primary value of fluoride appears to be topical rather than via ingestion. So it’s the water contacting your teeth that makes the difference, not fluoride in your digestive tract. I.e., fluoridated toothpaste or mouthwash will do more good than any dietary supplement.

The link I posted above covers the same points brought up by Ghost and Kim, but yes, fluoride MANAGEMENT is a more accurate description of what they want to do. It's not just blind addition. As mentioned, the mineral can naturally occur in water, even in excessive amounts that would be brought down to ideal levels.

IIRC there's been a movement in EU policy to scale back nutrient supplementation in food due to concerns that people are getting too much of certain vitamins to the detriment of their health.

What we need is just the tiniest hint of LSD in our water so we can all be microdosing 24/7 and occasionally tripping balls after you mow the lawn on a hot summer day.

https://frinkiac.com/video/S05E16/Wa9cgW5IqzAf3Zmi7X3hxoLjTMY=.gif

"not enough research" is the stand-in for "I dislike this abd can't elucidate why".

Same argument against GMOs.

When you ask how much more research would be satisfactory to prove its safe, they say "none. None more research."

going to disagree. for one, about 80% of the food we eat is already GMOed, even if it's not advertised as such. and a lot of it would look very different if it weren't GMOed (https://www.businessinsider.com/foods-before-genetic-modification-2015-8). it can also help with things such as food shortages and protect against pest interference (https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/gmo-pros-and-cons#definition).

yeah, it really depends on the modification and the food and how much of it you eat, variety in diet, etc.

fluoridation - classic or dud?

going to disagree. for one, about 80% of the food we eat is already GMOed, even if it's not advertised as such. and a lot of it would look very different if it weren't GMOed (https://www.businessinsider.com/foods-before-genetic-modification-2015-8🕸). it can also help with things such as food shortages and protect against pest interference (https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/gmo-pros-and-cons#definition🕸).

“GMOs are so great, they’re leading to complete lack of biodiversity, ruining native soils, and leading to superpests, all so Monsanto can sell more corn and soy to feedlots and gas companies”

Sorry for my tone in earlier posts, it’s just that most of the “solving problems of hunger” stuff has been proven completely untrue re:GMOs. The problems of selection pressure and superpests are well-known— farmers are often spraying harmful pesticides and using GMO crops, leading to even more robust pests. I am tired of “science” and “solutioneering” being used as solutions to problems when the real problems are uneven development and the dire need for degrowth across all sectors.

I think one of the advantages of adding flouride to water is that it helps childrens teeth develop before they appear.

need to take a degrowth mindset re:children's teeth

What we need is just the tiniest hint of LSD in our water so we can all be microdosing 24/7 and occasionally tripping balls after you mow the lawn on a hot summer day.

Anecdotal, but the one person that I've had to cut off contact with because they're 100% anti-vax, all-in on Qanon, etc. is a daily LSD microdoser. He was conspiracy-minded to begin with, but microdosing pushed him over the edge. It's too bad, because he's a great recording engineer and multi-instrumentalist but is now impossible to communicate with without having to acknowledge the inside-out world he lives in. The last time I spoke with him, he claimed that microdosing was allowing him "to get so much work done" in fighting the government because he hasn't paid property or income taxes since 2014 or so.

Set an intention and trip safe everyone.

Yeah, I know a guy or two like that, too. Really sad.

Anti-GMO people are left's versions of creationists.

They're perfectly healthy.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2016/05/17/gmos-safe-academies-of-science-report-genetically-modified-food/84458872/
https://www.nationalacademies.org/based-on-science/foods-made-with-gmos-do-not-pose-special-health-risks
https://www.kqed.org/stateofhealth/185632/gmos-not-harmful-to-human-health
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/07/are_gmos_safe_yes_the_case_against_them_is_full_of_fraud_lies_and_errors.html

And please with the Monsanto boogieman. Corporations suck in all industries.

Soil depletion is probably a bigger health issue than GMOs and even then there’s little consensus other than “the food your grandparents ate was richer in nutrients than what you can get now”

Have zero opinions on GMOs but I did see some lib acquaintances go so hard for defending that stuff that they ended up arguing Monsanto was doing great work to help the global South.

Bringing up a bunch of mainstream news articles about the health benefits of GMOs will not sway me, and shouldn’t sway anyone else with any knowledge of how corporations and the food industry continue to place and pay for favorable coverage and laws about their unhealthy products and harmful processes.

just more bought & sold propaganda from the shills at "big science", corn was intelligently designed by the benevolent creator to be perfect & without sin

Bringing up a bunch of mainstream news articles about the health benefits of vaccinations will not sway me, and shouldn’t sway anyone else with any knowledge of how corporations and the pharmaceutical industry continue to place and pay for favorable coverage and laws about their unhealthy products and harmful processes.

As in all things, there are grey areas. Some GMOs great benefits. Some lead to more harmful practices.

https://www.cspinet.org/sites/default/files/media/documents/resource/CSPI_GE_Pesticides_final.pdf

I mean, do I think GMOs have done good things? sure. Do I believe that GMOs have led to monocropping, soil degradation, and an entire farming system that is one of the biggest emitters of greenhouse gases on the planet? also yes. This isn’t complicated, imo— the negative impacts of many GMOs far outweigh the positive, and no bullshit cornaganda placed lovingly in popular mainstream news sources will change that

Bringing up a bunch of mainstream news articles about the health benefits of vaccinations will not sway me, and shouldn’t sway anyone else with any knowledge of how corporations and the pharmaceutical industry continue to place and pay for favorable coverage and laws about their unhealthy products and harmful processes.

As in all things, there are grey areas. Some GMOs great benefits. Some lead to more harmful practices.

https://www.cspinet.org/sites/default/files/media/documents/resource/CSPI_GE_Pesticides_final.pdf🕸

people who post about climate doom and worry about their children’s futures and also unquestioningly support and insist on supporting GMOs crops have not a leg to stand on— go eat a perfectly round and tasteless tomato and watch the world burn.

eh, Monsanto Monsonto

I do prefer heirloom tomatoes. But it is weird how letting nature do its own thing means a much more expensive tomato.

Eating food is unethical.

Good interview with the author of Tomatoland - outstanding book on the decline of the tomato and how industrial farming in Flordia has helped to destroy its taste and ruin the health of the workers who harvest them. Worth reading if you're interested in any of this:
https://www.npr.org/2011/06/28/137371975/how-industrial-farming-destroyed-the-tasty-tomato

xp - misread as cilantro doom

contemporary tomatocide would not have been possible without Wal-Mart and the fact that they used monopolistic practices to basically financially force farmers to either adopt industrial methods (yield above all, and the various details in the article) or else grow tomatoes at a loss ... oh yeah, and NAFTA didn't help either.

If Alex jones pays for lying shouldn’t every celebrity pushing vaccines pay too ?

— M.I.A. (@MIAuniverse) October 12, 2022

Pretty sure we already noted her as such, but just confirming.