When You Wake Up Feeling POLL - ILM Artist Poll #115 - WILCO/JEFF TWEEDY (Voting extended until Sunday, Sept 25)

lol!

but yeah y'know. only votes for the 'experimental' stuff. appears to not understand country music. hasn't heard anything before YHF or from any side project. probably gonna sit this one out tbh but 'one sunday morning' had basically better win

― imago, Thursday, September 1, 2022 3:19 AM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Vote!

Gonna try to do at least a tracks ballot. So many good side projects, that’s the most daunting one.

It seems like Tweedy-sung Mermaid Avenue should be eligible for the tracks ballot, is that right?

― Chris L, Thursday, September 1, 2022 4:42 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yes, absolutely. Sorry, should have clarified that.

Spent yesterday revisiting the Loose Fur albums. Born Again in the USA has some good material, but I pretty much always prefer the live Tweedy solo versions of his side-project songs. Used to have the Sunken Treasure, Live in the Pacific Northwest DVD audio on my iPod -- which has "The Ruling Class" and "Laminated Cat", as well as a few other loose ends like "The Thanks I Get", all of which will be on my ballot -- and would listen to it more than most of the Wilco albums.

WARM is much better than I remembered -- worth a revisit -- though by the time I finished WARMER I needed an espresso. Former might sneak onto my side project ballot but there's all those damn Uncle Tupelo records.

here to vote for all the tupelo records/songs!

Would rule to see at least one Golden Smog track place. This one is great imo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We5Jij2jxRA

Aw shit, ive been cuttin' wilco-only down to 40, gonna have to recalibrate my tweedy sense.

but yeah y'know. only votes for the 'experimental' stuff. appears to not understand country music. hasn't heard anything before YHF or from any side project

if you want more 'experimental' wilco then the first loose fur album is the way to go, it kinda splits the difference between yhf & o'rourke's insignificance but is krautier than either

& summerteeth is one of the least country wilco albums, being the one where they got really into power-pop & 60s psych-pop. i recommend the live version of "via chicago" at least if you want one of their best self-consciously 'experimental' moves

literally still staggering in disbelief that lj has never heard summerteeth

I too am surprised to hear there are YHF fans who haven't heard Summerteeth! It is well worth anyone's time to listen to Being There > Summerteeth > YHF, if only to hear how much their sound evolved in that period from alt country -> 60s pop rock -> experimental indie folk. All three are excellent albums that reflected the evolving interests and talents of the people who worked on them, all three sound "like Wilco," but they are very, very different.

Perhaps a bit silly but the first four album runs for Wilco and Radiohead have always been loosely connected in my mind, with the second record being a much better, fully realized (but still quite commercial) version of the sound developed on the debut, the third picking up specific, successful elements of the second and making something far more creative and interesting, and the fourth being a rejection of the third's more bloated features for a sparser, more experimental sound. Wilco was a year or two behind Radiohead in their album cycle, and while I am not aware of any direct inspiration they took from the band, it seems they had similar motivations in their evolutions.

Coda: Found this after writing the above: https://www.reddit.com/r/radiohead/comments/51pfly/wilco_and_radiohead_have_had_very_similar_album/

summerteeth/yhf & the bends/okc works better as a comparison i think though it's still not a great one

would the loose fur s/t be less criminally underrated if it were billed as "jim o'rourke & wilco" or "jim o'rourke & jeff tweedy" i wonder

That Wilco/Radiohead thing def. holds water. There were comparisons in the press at the time and certainly plenty of fans who came aboard w/Summerteeth and/or YHF who were also big Radiohead nuts.

Indeed, Wilco graced the cover of The Wire circa A Ghost Is Born and were described as the "American Radiohead" in the article.

Just to clarify, I never took to the "American Radiohead" description, but if you've only heard YHF, you're missing out.

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/302725926_10158929598063157_6699227372384948705_n.jpg?stp=cp1_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=6Rfp995dwawAX-csL4X&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=00_AT-_D4RZ9XusDaFTd_R0WOM3F4uEikSzwz7SYJRD6ERklw&oe=63171164

https://i.imgur.com/jADyVyK.png

The "American Radiohead" thing reminded me of how film critics were trying to compare seemingly every movie to Mulholland Drive in the early 00s.

A little surprised to find that I'm placing more tracks from Cruel Country than I am Being There. It's a top 5 Wilco album for me for sure. Can't wait for it come out on vinyl.

Also, I just noticed that the progress bar in Spotify for the songs on Star Wars is a light saber!

xxxp STP? Dan Fogelberg? FFS...

RE: Wilco/Tweedy tracks, for the Mermaid Avenue songs, those are eligible as long as Tweedy sings lead, correct? (He didn't write the lyrics, but all the music with his lead vocal has music composed by him and Wilco, so that should make him a co-writer in that respect.)

ah nm, I missed the post that confirmed that it's a yes

is any of tweedy's solo work worthwhile? i listened to warm & it was pretty dull

Pulled together all the Wilco/UT/Golden Smog/Loose Fur songs and really quickly picked out about 30 songs I knew were contenders. Now I’m shuffling through the rest to remind me of anything I’m forgetting. But golly when he is boring he is really boring.

ah nm, I missed the post that confirmed that it's a yes

― birdistheword,

I just posted this in the ballot thread for people who bookmark.

I have never seen a voting link for a artist ballot poll before, nice addition. I would not be able to figure all that out myself.

still bizarre to me that the label didn't hear a hit on summerteeth and insisted that they write one (resulting in "can't stand it" which is pretty average and not an obvious hit) when the album has like, "i'm always in love" and "elt" on it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IsGgKM56qs

this 20 minute loose fur jam (a bonus track on their second album) is cool

XP They were trying to break into Alternative Radio in '99, which was becoming the home to alot of bland Guitar Pop Rock. I remember some retrospective interview with Tweedy or maybe Stirratt where he mentioned the label was "...mad we didn't want to become Matchbox 20".

This recent Stereogum #1's piece on Vertical Horizon does a good job summing up the radio hellscape in 1999.

https://www.stereogum.com/2196389/the-number-ones-vertical-horizons-everything-you-want/columns/the-number-ones/

even in the 99 alt radio hellscape it's still like, "i'm always in love" would have surely been a better bet than "can't stand it" idk

I agree with you, but when the label wants you to be Matchbox 20...

jeez, that stereogum piece is harsh enough that it makes me worry about the v horizon singer's self-esteem, if he sees it!

i mean, that song does suck very badly though

Self XP...or now that I think about it, it may have been the Wallflowers.

Anyway, here's the band on Leno doing "I Can't Stand It"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSd2wvurFBE

Bennett was clearly just one of those catalysts that made everything and everybody in that band better. Post-Bennett (and pills) Wilco has always been solid, and stable, but for all their various high points I'd be lying if I said I liked any of it nearly as much as that streak of "Being There," Mermaid avenues, "Summerteeth" and "YHF." Imo Wilco actually got weirder and more adventurous post Bennett, but somehow, counterintuitively, less interesting, too.

ghost is born and sky blue sky are as good as any of those records

I like the latter (post-pills), and some of the former (peak-pills) a lot, but I feel like it was the afterglow carrying them forward.

i don't think this is a popular opinion, but i think that nels cline bores me. i realize he is one of the greatest guitar players of all time, has perfect taste and tone and always adds just the right element for the song, all of that. but i keep trying to dig into the cline-era albums and i hit a wall, every time. maybe i'm blaming too much on cline

i think i really like it when i think there's the potential for a band to mess up

I've honestly never liked Nels Cline in any context. Him, Jeff Parker and Reeves Gabrels are three guitar nerd faves that just do nothing for me.

jeff parker rules! i haven't heard gabrels, i don't think. but yeah, in the same way that i read you saying jeff parker does nothing for you and i immediately think "oh no, that's just wrong. jeff parker is wonderful", i'm sure a nels cline diss also just pisses people off, haha

I like a few Parker records, but he's generally not what I like best about them.

xxpost I totally agree with that, which is sort of the confirmation bias/crux of the Bennett situation. Was he the x-factor, or was it him *plus* the fact that they were less perfectionist/more prone to mess up/more "rock and roll"/more messed up themselves? I've seen Wilco a million times, but the best were with Bennett (and shortly afterwards) when the band was loose and ragged and fun and (later) totally intense and fucked up, like they were on the YHF tour. Ghost tour was the last with Leroy Bach and the first with Cline, iirc, and that's when the dynamic really changed, imo.

Looking at that Leno clip, it strikes me as a good trick (if indeed intentional) to name the song the label forced you to write "I Can't Stand It", so that when performed live the bile and resentment can really be amped up.

A la those earlier performances of "Misunderstood," which ended with Tweedy shouting "I'd like to thank you all for NOTHING!!!!" over and over again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_HBJ5sHcJU

should have been followed by a quiet "thank you all for comin out today"

Must be great to have such a vehicle for catharsis. He still spits out those nothings, but it's nowhere near as venomous.

I'd absolutely include Ghost in the golden run from Summerteeth. I think everything culminates with Kicking Television, where Cline is eyewateringly good in places (the extended Ashes of American Flags as exhibit A). I like the post KT stuff, but agree it's steady rather than transcendent.

I tried Sky Blue Sky again multiple times and it still doesn't sound that interesting or engaging apart from a handful of tracks. I actually bought a copy so I'll probably keep trying. It seems to be more appreciated now than it ever was before, so hopefully I'll come around to it as well. (Great album cover regardless, right up there with the one for YHF.)

I bought the Capitol Theater box set back when there was a flash sale (basically the whole run of 2014 shows at that venue). I haven't dived into it yet, but those were supposed to be great shows. I think the whole thing may still be streamable on nugs.

lots of great stuff on sky blue sky - "either way", "you are my face", "impossible germany" of course, "side with the seeds", "on and on and on"... it's all about the vibes and the cool guitar parts. sometimes it's a bit too classic rock bluesy i guess? that doesn't quite capture what's not to my taste about "shake it off" etc. but that's not a huge complaint. and some songs are a little unassuming but it's still very solid, i'd definitely consider it the last of their classic period from being there onward.

wilco (the album) was their first inessential album since a.m., the first time they just coasted - it's not bad or anything but not particularly strong either. only "one wing" and "bull black nova" really stand out to me and even then idk that either is really up with their best

i could see people disliking “hate it here” for its overt beatles cosplay, but he nails the let it be era pretty well on that imo

I love that they launched Sky Blue Sky with a series of Volkswagen ads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4XxEQwHYUY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hkPuIkeZCQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-MQuf1Prz8

gotta say I love Cline for the same reason I love Hendrix, despite hating the "guitar hero" concept - like e.g. Charlie Parker, the technique is always in service to the melodic expression. That "Impossible Germany" solo is absolutely a poem, including the bruised and fried sound of the Jazzmaster and whatever preamp is overloading.

don't see any reason not to combine them at all

they're the same song, arranged differently. i think combining makes sense

the vast majority of the ranked section of my ballot is gonna be from the big 3, and i am ok with it

when I started this i thought it was going to be easy. there are so many songs...

I'm getting there though

There *are* so many songs! We only have 12 ballots, many of which are partial, and over 130 different songs have received a vote.

hey indexed did my ballot go thru? I see that you had 12 before and after i submitted.

yup, didn't see that gman59 had submitted

Voted

ah oops yes I did submit. thank you!

Just a few days left, and we could definitely use a few more ballots, especially for Poll #3, though I know that might be the hardest for folks to feel comfortable participating in. Thanks to those who have already voted. Has been a big help in prepping images.

(Almost) Last Call. I know many of you are off-ILM on weekends. Would love to get a few more ballots. Thanks to the couple of folks who have submitted in the last 24 hours!

Voted! Ridiculously hard. That strange feeling in trying to rearrange things that many of the tracks are so part of the sorry self I carry around with me every day that I scarce recognise the titles.

Still planning to submit!

lol k, did it

Voted!

Submitted a lean but mean ballot.

just voted, went with my gut!

Got a bunch of ballots yesterday - many thanks to the procrastinators and all who voted.

My work week looks absolutely brutal so will likely save the roll out for next week. If anyone wants to submit a late ballot, let me know, and I'll see what's possible based on image work.

I know I was one of those requesting the additional time, but I had a variety of life events pop up this week that mean I'm not able to pull together a ballot. Sorry about that. Really looking forward to the roll out though!

Tracks voting is absolutely closed but if you or anyone else wants to submit an Albums or Side Projects ballot before the end of this week, go for it. Very easy for me to update those in advance of next week's roll out.

The anticipation is killing me.

ratings for selected lines in Shot in the Arm:

The ashtray says you were up all night (10/10)

We fell in love in the key of C (9)
We walked along down by the sea (1)

Please rate “I know you don’t talk much but you’re such a good talker“ from outta sight outta mind

Also, I can’t honestly say that this is a true misheard lyric, but having grown up in Albany New York, whenever tweedy sings “you followed me down the neck to D“, I like to sing it as “you followed me down to Schenectady“

realizing i never posted my (mixed) ballot!

Tracks
I Am Trying To Break Your Heart
I’m Always In Love
Misunderstood
Poor Places
Impossible Germany
Hotel Arizona
Ashes Of American Flags
Summer Teeth
(Was I) In Your Dreams
ELT
A Shot In The Arm
Wait Up
Sunken Treasure
Hate It Here
Pot Kettle Black
I Got You (At The End of the Century)
Via Chicago
When You Wake Up Feeling Old
Someday Soon
Nothing’severgonnastandinmywayagain
Random Number Generator

Forget The Flowers
Muzzle Of Bees
Outtasite (Outta Mind)
Kingpin
Jesus, Etc
Heavy Metal Drummer
I’m The Man WHo Loves You
Handshake Drugs
The Joke Explained
Someone To Lose
California Stars
At Least That’s What You Said
Theologians
Acuff Rose
Either Way
One Sunday Morning
Art Of Almost
New Madrid
Watch Me Fall

Albums
Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
Summerteeth
Being There
Star Wars
Sky Blue Sky

Also, I can’t honestly say that this is a true misheard lyric, but having grown up in Albany New York, whenever tweedy sings “you followed me down the neck to D“, I like to sing it as “you followed me down to Schenectady“

this is so bizarre that i hesitate to bring it up, but: did you read or hear about Schenectady recently, in relation to Wilco? because -- i know this sounds completely fake and just feel free to ignore it -- last night i went to bed at about 7:30pm. i woke back up at midnight and was wide awake, in bed, for several hours. during that time, i had Shot in the Arm in my head. it was annoying. i put on some other music (Languoria) but I couldn't get it out of my head. "We fell in love, in the key of C" (cool timpani part), then the "...we walked along down the sea" part that i don't like so much, then the rest of it, the sliding down the neck to D, and then once again the sea. but then - I SWEAR IT! - i was rhyming "Schenectady" in there. "we walked along...to sche-nec-tad-y...", and i was even thinking to myself "why do I know his town?". i lived in brooklyn for a couple years, i went to grad school in upstate, my ex's family has a home out there, etc. but Schenectady is not a town i ever think about, and i had absolutely no idea how to spell it.

so why do YOU sing it that way? is there something out there in the world that is causing us to introduce "Schenectady" in there?

the first place i looked was this thread, as well as the voting thread. but i don't think it was on ilx - i did a search for "Schenectady" and it hasn't come up for months. then i looked on genius.com, because i had been peeping the lyrics there along with the scholarly annotations. but no. i don't think so.

to wrap this up i would like to rate “you followed me down to Schenectady“ as 10/10 and canon; true wilco heads will dream it to life

did you read or hear about Schenectady recently, in relation to Wilco

and

so why do YOU sing it that way? is there something out there in the world that is causing us to introduce "Schenectady" in there?

ok ignore these questions as you very clearly mentioned that you grew up nearby, lol.

i don't know how to express how strange this is (to me) and also how little it matters in the grand scheme of things

on an entirely different note, has anyone seen "Where are you, Jay Bennett"? it's up in full on youtube, at the moment. i admit that i skipped through much of the formative years stuff and just went straight to the wilco portion. it is a very bitter movie because some of the people left behind have an obvious chip on their shoulder, but it's also revealing in some ways.

That misheard lyric has never occurred to me -- I always liked the "followed me down the neck to D" line as I believe it's sung while Tweedy plays a D -- but I know the town from the film of the same name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synecdoche,_New_York

I’m adding this “mishearing“ to my internal canon because I love it too and otherwise co-sign Karl’s ratings