Beyoncé - Renaissance

inevitable (after the bootleg mashups), but surprisingly good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9WNVoA_KG8

…and no, 2022 Madonna isn’t on it

I'm going to need Terre Thaemlitz' opinion on this as soon as possible

Longneck, that's also New Orleans bounce tempo

I wish not to hear "you won't break my soul" again.

xpost

Ahhhh, you're right! Thanks.

Queen Mother Madonna, Aaliyah
Rosetta Tharpe, Santigold
Bessie Smith, Nina Simone
Betty Davis, Solange Knowles
Badu, Lizzo, Kelly Rowl'
Lauryn Hill, Roberta Flack
Toni, Janet, Tierra Whack
Missy, Diana, Grace Jones
Aretha, Anita, Grace Jones
Helen Folasade Adu
Jilly from Philly, I love you boo
Don't just stand there get into it
Strike a pose there's nothing to it
Michelle, Chloe, Halle, Aaliyah, Alicia, Whitney, RiRi, Nicki

The Santigold shoutout is surprising.

I'm going to need Terre Thaemlitz' opinion on this as soon as possible

― boxedjoy, Saturday, August 6, 2022 1:24 PM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol, love and respect to tt but it pretty much writes itself.

i'm getting a little tired of "break my soul" but some kid facetiming his mom on her birthday when i played it last sunday and holding the phone up to me - all the smiles and stuff, that was pretty fucking awesome.

I have to agree with everyone who’s said that “Break My Soul” works a lot better in the context of the full record.

And I’m finding myself enjoying the back half of Renaissance a lot more on this listen.

I have to agree with everyone who’s said that “Break My Soul” works a lot better in the context of the full record.
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Sunday, August 7, 2022 3:23 AM (seventeen hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I feel like we say that a lot to mean "I changed my mind, but my pronouncements are never wrong" :)

You’re probably right!

By itself, the song just felt kinda slight.

i think in this case there is genuinely something about the transition into the song… it’s not just a sequencing of a tracklist but an actual blending of music… that really elevates it, tho there is also something about the sequencing too as i posted earlier that puts the song in its best light

This album rules.

“Break my soul” got annoying really fast

xp +1

#1 album and single this week.

vogue mash-up bangs

you should have known this album ruled early on when the freakin' foremost poets sample comes in c'mon

Mostly good stuff: https://www.npr.org/2022/08/01/1114499960/revolutionary-fun-beyonce-renaissance-review-roundtable

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, August 1, 2022 5:35 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

Thanks. The NYT Popcast roundtable was worth a listen, as well (unlike some prior episodes we've discussed). Always better when JC plays facilitator vs. agitator/smarmy contrarian.

Good review imo: https://ra.co/reviews/35009

(of course the writer has now had to make her twitter private)

idk I feel like im more bearish on the album than a lot of people here but I didn't think that was a very good review. what does “is it burying or uplifting queer history?” even mean?

I'm not crazy about "the album falls flat when it tries too hard to immerse itself in a culture that does not belong to Beyoncé." Who polices this and Bowie's Young Americans?

I’m still back on Beyoncé explicitly riffing on all of this stuff in the Get Me Bodied video

idgi. everyone should be making more disco records plz.

I guess to me it’s like — I’m super open to the argument if someone told me they find the project frustrating bc ie it’s using ballroom tropes but wouldn’t actually work in that context, for them, or something like that — like i am interested in critiques of the project & its utility in certain spaces or lack thereof. But this piece reads to me more like someone making the point of vague problematic aura bc they think it’s a point someone is supposed to be making than bc they have a compelling reason to believe it

I promise I’m not trying to start a fight here, but I’m genuinely curious: has there been a negative published review of this record?

I don’t think of myself as a particularly punkrock R&B fan, but I haven’t felt as “out of touch” with popular sentiment in forever (though that’s true when it comes to Beyoncé in general). My problem, I suppose.

what non-Beyonce R&B do you listen to?

I think everybody is too scared of Beyonce’s army to give this record anything less than a B+

xp I listen exclusively to “Top That,” from the Teen Witch soundtrack. Am I doing it wrong?

i tend to find questions about whether archetypal pop divas paying obvious, specific and lovingly executed tribute to lgbtq people/art/community is 'appropriative'/exploitative approximately as insightful as those ppl on twitter years ago who were asking with complete sincerity whether drag performance is a problematic appropriation of effeminacy after the rachel dolezal fiasco

xp no but you sure are annoying about it

i can't remember the last time i read a good review in resident advisor, the one above certainly isn't

I think everybody is too scared of Beyonce’s army to give this record anything less than a B+

― ✖✖✖ (Moka)

this is true tho, on fan spaces it is abundantly clear that the gravest sin that this reviewer committed was causing the album's metacritic score to drop to a paltry 92 (!!)

xp sorry to annoy!

idk I feel like im more bearish on the album than a lot of people here but I didn't think that was a very good review. what does “is it burying or uplifting queer history?” even mean?

― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 10 August 2022 00:29 (two hours ago) link

I'm not crazy about "the album falls flat when it tries too hard to immerse itself in a culture that does not belong to Beyoncé." Who polices this and Bowie's Young Americans?

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 August 2022 00:31 (two hours ago) link

I guess to me it’s like — I’m super open to the argument if someone told me they find the project frustrating bc ie it’s using ballroom tropes but wouldn’t actually work in that context, for them, or something like that — like i am interested in critiques of the project & its utility in certain spaces or lack thereof. But this piece reads to me more like someone making the point of vague problematic aura bc they think it’s a point someone is supposed to be making than bc they have a compelling reason to believe it

― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 10 August 2022 00:41 (two hours ago) link

I talk about this quite a lot but I find it super-frustrating how the convergence of pop criticism, cultural studies, gossip and twitter snark results in this kind of short-circuit argument where the connection between the quality of the music and the issue which is purportedly problematic is posited but not unpacked, e.g.:

"But, as a wealthy cis woman, Beyoncé lacks an intimate understanding of the subcultures she is borrowing from, and this sudden, random interest in underground queer culture renders the execution awkward at best, and painfully pandering at worst. "

How would an "intimate understanding" of queer/ballroom subcultures (even assuming the writer is correct to conclude that Beyonce lacks it) have manifested as a different end product? The writer doesn't say, perhaps hasn't even turned their mind to the question, beyond a kind of vague "I'd know it when I saw/heard it" presumption (presumably because the artist in question is not a wealthy cis woman).

The result of this kind of approach tends to turn what could be a very thoughtful examination (of how an artist like Beyonce can successfully or otherwise engage with queer culture) into a quite shallow one.

it does at least accurately capture the stakes there - if it was a misstep by beyonce in that regard then it's only awkward and/or corny, but it doesn't really spend enough time justifying why they think it's a misstep, there's just one line they take minor issue with and the rest of the critique seems to just boil down to vibes

i feel pretty ambivalent about the album in that regard, it doesn't really feel like some real misstep nor success, in its relation to queer culture

To be clear, I'd be open to being persuaded that it is a real misstep - but I think that kind of allegation should require more reasoning in support rather than less.

I don't think it's a misstep, but it is interesting that she's specifically adopting the persona and cadences of some of these subcultural club styles. She could have just sampled it as window dressing, or done her normal style and had guest vocalists. I appreciate the commitment, but it's definitely a riskier move. I think it works but also feels like she's trying on costumes at times?

exaggerated, even 'costumed' expressions of oneself are literally inextricable from these subcultures. among the foremost personae adopted within these spaces is that of the diva, the sort of larger-than-life star that certain figures like, hm, say, beyoncé have embodied for decades. have you all not seen queer people literally dressing up as beyoncé before

Yeah otm, queer culture and pop divas have been in a symbiotic relationship for decades. Weird conversation to have regarding this album.

Yeah, it feels like a moot point. Queer culture is not monolithic, has shared the global stage for decades, and can't be construed as a person who never saw it coming that a pop superstar in effing 2022 would integrate and promote it on her own terms (or queer culture really has a short memory). It's not like we can measure, but it's funny to suggest that queer culture could have been portrayed and impacted negatively, as if Beyoncé was commissioned and failed, or not even commissioned since she didn't ask for permission, and couldn't even had the idea since she's supposed to be compartmentalized... when it seems to me that queer culture can only gain from the additional exposure. I mean, it can be a conversation-starter, like, "what did you think of the new Beyoncé", rather than the negative "in what world did she think she was allowed to", as if silence would have been better. I prefer the world where she did it (even if I still have no idea what "it" is).

I think a lot of writers just find it easier to frame assessments of music which throw up these issues as boiling down to a question of "who gets to have this conversation" rather than "what is the conversation, and what does this specific artefact add to that conversation".

there's something i've been pondering, because I live in LA now and am surrounded by dispensaries, about what people expect ... not just of weed, or art, but the world itself, to do for them.

when I was a teenager weed was like, something you did to get high or feel stoned or eat too many chips and watch bad movies

and now weed is marketed, at these dispenseries, as something which has great personal therapeutic and even biological utility -- good for aches and pains and nausea and tension headaches and to feel calm and relax or feel energized and stimulated or etc etc. This maybe obvious to you all as to be unremarkable, idk, I just moved here and never smoked much. I know this sounds like an attempted comedy bit but I really mean it--the language around this stuff is so funny

An energetic sativa strain with diesel and blueberry aromas. The presence of the limonene terpene in this strain heightens focus while the presence of terpinolene, when in concert with THC, acts as a natural stimulant. The result is a heavy-hitting and fast-acting flower with an invigorating cerebral effect.

This pure sativa originates from the South African port city of Durban. It has gained popularity worldwide for its sweet smell and energetic, uplifting effects. Durban Poison is the perfect strain to help you stay productive through a busy day, when exploring the outdoors, or to lend a spark of creativity.

The Wedding Cake strain provides relaxing and euphoric effects that calm the body and mind. This strain yields a rich and tangy flavor profile with undertones of earthy pepper. Medical marijuana patients choose Wedding Cake to help relieve symptoms associated with pain, insomnia and appetite loss.

Someone with more time & an anti-industry bent could probably relate this trend to music by talking about how streaming playlists are marketed ... lo fi beats for you to study to

anyway, to get to the point, people write about music in a similar kind of sense I find -- that it owes them something as a consumer, and that that something tends to be graded on a scale of 'good for me' >>>> 'bad for me', rather than whether it, like, works creatively, or to really approach it on its own terms in any way...what does it do for us? does it help empower us, affirm, to heal: it's a balm for our troubled times, or whatever? And this healing property is given the weight of a moral imperative. And then when you want to critique it, to be a bold truth-teller about someone who can't be criticized, you have to disqualify its efficacy as some kind of musical medicine. There's no sense that it's failed creatively, but that it's in some way "bad for you," that authority for the critic's pan must be sourced in an objective fact of the work, like calling on the chemical components of a weed strain to explain why it makes you feel kind of dumb.

(D-40 and Tim F. are both getting at something that’s bothered me about a lot of music crit for quite a few years, but that’s much bigger than the reception of this album.)

I interpret it as fear, insecurity. There's a first question that comes before "Do I like it?" which is "what will people think or say if I like it?", and somehow the latter is supposed to answer the former, and of course it does not work. Especially when there is no time, and you're looking for a big-picture justification about something that came out hours / days before, it's like self-inflicted torture, just because you don't want to go on record as having had a "bad take".

It's not just critiques. I swear you hear it in artists, who frame their work more and more, looking to provide the justification. Beyoncé has the privilege and luxury not to have to do that, and her album sounds more fresh, daring, immediate, less calculated than average.

Does queer have meaning for this album as a work or for her personally? (My fear from reading reviews only, not careful listening, is that queer is being exploited.)

I'm not following you.

this healing property is given the weight of a moral imperative.

Excellent line.

Beyonce's mentioning her queer uncle strikes me as defensive, which, of course, she didn't intend.

Tim F's question ("what is the conversation, and what does this specific artefact add to that conversation?") is among the ones I try answering in my own stuff except I'd reverse the order: what is this artifact, how does it work, and which conversation does it address?

Beyoncé has the privilege and luxury not to have to do that, and her album sounds more fresh, daring, immediate, less calculated than average.

"Calculated" isn't a condemnation, I hope! How can an album this deluxe and expensive NOT be calculated?