What's the future of the music industry?

clairo is a weird case because the way she blew up was about as organic as it gets (viral hit on youtube without any sort of label push) & while her dad certainly would have been a big help in getting her record deal after that i'm sure labels would have been interested regardless

― ufo, Sunday, July 24, 2022 7:19 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

it's funny because her dad's relationship with the fader (which initially got clairo signed to fader label) is prob more beneficial to the fader than to clairo herself, since they're included in her joint venture with republic

I am not discounting the possibility that there are somehow listeners out there who have heard 250 albums in a year, featuring a non-negligible amount of rock/indie, who maintain that Wet Leg are the best of the lot, more deserving of their listening time and praise than anything else. I don't understand you, but fair enough if that resembles you. However, I am saying that if you don't follow as much music as you frankly should as a critic/forum poster, you'll probably end up fatuously cheering on the supremacy of acts that get the Big Push from the big obvious places (and this doesn't just mean Pitchfork scores, it means coverage, hype, airtime). Like, I don't mind when, for example, I go on my soccer forum and see posters pipe up all 'Hey have you heard the Wet Leg? Best indie in years! Omgzors!' etc, because they're not music nerds, they'll eat what they're given and that's fine, let Wet Leg be the sound of their summer or whatever. But when you're on ILM, do the work. Poptimism doesn't mean laziness. That obnoxious enough for you?

I know Wet Leg only through this forum. I'd not heard of them through any of my friends who are still pretty plugged into The Kids and What's Happening Now.

the position that Wet Leg make bogstandard indie

given an article involving 'bands that sound like Stereloab'/'shoegaze in 2022'/'the cultural institutions of college rock labels of the 1980s'/'garage rock legends' this would seem to fall in the narcissism of small differences zone.

I admittedly haven't listened to Dummy yet

Maybe I'll do the work now

you don't follow as much music as you frankly should as a critic/forum shitposter

This sounds like Stereolab!!!!

Nah, it's got my attention. See you all in 40 minutes

frankly i'll never understand how enjoying the wet leg record is lazy if you're on an internet music forum

“if it’s catchy and people who don’t normally pay obsessive attention to music like it it can’t possibly be good”

"if you listen to enough music then eventually your tastes will resemble imago's" is a good argument for paying less attention

1988 letter page to Rolling Stone complaining that Depeche Mode don’t play real instruments

I didn't realise there was an album-listening qualification threshold for posting to ILM

I should have checked the TOS.

But when you're on ILM, do the work.

“I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed.”

consider the bar” he said, with an insouciant swirl of his snifter, “raised”

Dummy record has some cool ideas and some lovely moments. Don't think they're fully realised yet but there's something there. Can just about see why someone would write them an 8000-word advertisement, if they were friends with them

acts that get the Big Push from the big obvious places

We call it the Big P

wet leg down with OPP (Obvious Places Push)

you don't follow as much music as you frankly should as a critic/forum shitposter

― slide into my KMFDMs (morrisp)

my experience as a shitposter is that shitposting works better when you _haven't_ heard the band in question

wet leg? sounds like they peed themselves! haw, haw, haw!

(this works even better if this is, actually, the inspiration for their name - see also "i'm coming out? sounds GAY")

i heard about five seconds of them and didn't like it and nobody outside of this board has ever mentioned their existence, so i'm probably not gonna listen to any more of their stuff

how dare you question the cultural ubiquity of wet leg

poptimism is not about celebrating what is popular per se, it is about celebrating ALL music AS pop, and the issue then becomes exposure

i really like this

I didn't realise there was an album-listening qualification threshold for posting to ILM

Yeah I mean probably the best poster on ILM is someone who mainly posts about the same 2 artists. I would welcome more posters who are really deeply into one thing, I'm glad if that stuff can be posted here instead of on a fan board for the artist where i'd never come across it. And I don't think good criticism has to be "on the bear" either.

i really like this

I don't, especially. Adopting a pop-centred framework for looking at all music doesn't strike me as particularly beneficial, empowering, or enlightening.

i get why people see music that way (re: poptimism) but it doesn't work for me.

i heard about five seconds of them and didn't like it and nobody outside of this board has ever mentioned their existence, so i'm probably not gonna listen to any more of their stuff

I highly suggest you try out the tracks Convincing -> Loving You -> Your Mom(!)

I think they're truly great indie-pop/whatever

poptimism was a particular strategy at a particular time. i’m glad it happened and in many ways it “won” but it’s kind of meaningless now imo. though maybe not quite so meaningless as saying “all music is pop music” lol. what a strange thing to say. not all music is pop music. but hoo boy am i looking forward to not getting into an argument about it.

there's nowhere online where wet leg is more inescapable than ilx where posters who don't like wet leg can't stop posting about how hard it is to not see posts about wet leg

'ALL music' was an exaggeration. I did actually clarify at length earlier to Sund4r on a private chat, so it's annoying he's now relitigating what I've already clarified, lol

It's an idea that's crystallised following the peoples_pop polls on Twitter
Seeing straight up pop being celebrated in the same breath as art stuff, metal, psych, whatever
Polled against it, treated equally
Made me realise what the Ewing/FT poptimism project was actually about, which is something I agree with

Yeah, but with no scorn against commercial or simplistic pop music
A full acceptance of all music as having a right to one's approval

Perhaps it centres pop, but it also allows anything to try and be pop

Some things might be more obviously pop, but there is an effort on the part of the dedicated poptimist to hear any non-classical music as pop, and even some classical in a few cases
It only has to succeed as songs, really
Any song that one might call a banger, lol
The song is at the heart of pop
The album is a more classical format in a sense, imo
More literary, less immediate

these were my clarifications fwiw

I wasn't relitigating it with you; I was replying to Deflatormouse after he endorsed your original formulation, the only one on the thread xp until now. I do still think that you're describing a pop-centred framework for listening fwiw.

Anyway, we can agree on Wet Leg sucking.

I think that that is, or has become, my preferred framework, even when I'm listening to full prog or extreme metal or whatever. What would you say yours is? You're a musician, so perhaps your framework is more about performance and process?

I measure everything relative to "Fox on the Run" by Sweet. Pop is too broad.

(Will give a serious answer after I stop procrastinating and actually play some music; thanks for the reminder.)

i like wet leg too but a band's first single having a lavish video

Isn’t the video just them walking down a lane and sitting on a porch?

Anyway, we can agree on Wet Leg sucking.

I think that that is, or has become, my preferred framework, even when I'm listening to full prog or extreme metal or whatever.

checks out.

Sund4r, why do you think Wet Leg are bad? You have fairly considered taste, so I'm interested in your thoughts

i have been confusing wet leg and dry cleaning for this entire thread

Dry Cleaning played Glastonbury so they're presumably part of Big Indie anyway.

Yeah, the writer covered the bases:

Wet Leg, one of many mediocre British post-punk groups who you’re more or less informed that you like, because you’re into guitars, right, idiot?

I'm into mediocre British post-punk groups because I like bass, really.

lol post-punk was 40 years ago

poptimism was 20

I highly suggest you try out the tracks Convincing -> Loving You -> Your Mom(!)

I think they're truly great indie-pop/whatever

― slide into my KMFDMs (morrisp)

i might but honestly i have a backlog of about a billion things to listen to, and somehow i just keep listening to _dots and loops_

maybe after i catch up on the david axelrod thread

Morrisp, I should admit I've only listened to the singles/advance tracks and not the whole album and was shooting off my mouth about an ILM darling. In what I've heard, I just find the the music kind of basic and monotonous and the detached vocals unengaging in a way that feels dry and enervating more than fun or catchy or droll. The humour doesn't land for me at all. But honestly, it's not really the kind of thing I generally seek out in contemporary music so I should probably not be commenting. I'm not exactly sure what postpunk this stuff is supposed to be reviving but it doesn't recall for me the qualities I enjoy in Joy Division, Wire, Slits, etc.

one obvious post-punk precursor is the Flying Lizards, fwiw,

(I only just realized this now, but I stand by it)

What's the future of the music industry?

arguing abt indie authenticity on a message board obv

as for the past...

Having problems parsing the manifesto style commitment of Yeah, but with no scorn against commercial or simplistic pop music
A full acceptance of all music as having a right to one's approval

with punching up hit jobs, aesthetic or not.

No implicit scorn. Case by case judgement