steve hoffman forums, C or D?

It's best to detect the sarcasm but respond like it's sincere, everybody wins.

there should be bb code for [ sarcasm ]that messes with capitalization or something

I remember reading about this thread back in June:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/will-sanctions-be-the-end-of-the-tube-resurgence.1134832/

A lot of vacuum tubes come from Russia, apparently. It's fascinating both for a glimpse into a peculiar worldview and also because it's 51 pages long.

On the other hand Russia was for a long time the only source of old-fashioned mercury camera batteries, so I can see where they're coming from. The frustrating thing is that in the early 2000s a lot of people assumed that camera film would never die because China and Russia would continue to pump it out forever, because it would be decades before digital cameras became a thing in the former second world. But of course digital cameras and eventually smartphones crashed in price, and in large parts of the world a smartphone is an indispensable daily tool, so camera film died a dead. It's still being made, or at least slowly repackaged from existing stocks, but it will never be cheaper than it was in the early 2000s. I'm digressing here.

I think many poaters on Stereo Central are a lot farther gone than on SH.tv itself

It's best to detect the sarcasm but respond like it's sincere, everybody wins.

― Halfway there but for you

i've found that in order to really respond to anything as if it's sincere, i kind of have to _believe_ it's sincere. otherwise it's just meta-sarcasm.

I would hope in 170 pages it would be pointed out, no matter what media is used, it probably more important who is actually running the lathe to cut the new vinyl master.

Yeah pretty much. They're all good formats, how it's mastered matters a thousand times more.

512 pages into that monster thread about MoFi now, but I really appreciate the poster that dropped this nugget in the middle of it all:

Yes, but the most glaring takeaway is that nobody noticed. All those people with golden ears and impeccable gear profiles.

What a wonderful long troll game these MFs have played on the AAA-holes ;-)

if you were running an experiment to definitively prove that all stuff was fully bullshit you couldnt have set it up any better, its just so hilariously perfect

Spot on. It's a placebo effect. To be fair, yeah, there are differences you can hear, but after a certain point, they start claiming you can tell if this orange was growing on this tree or the one next to it.

And yet, audiophilia will continue. Monster Cable managed to survive that "we replaced an expensive Monster cable with a wire hanger and no one noticed" thing years ago. MFSL will probably issue a vague "we goofed, sort of" statement, wording will be slightly tweaked on their release announcements (from "All Analog! No Digital!" to "All Analog? No, Digital!"), and everything will continue on as if it never happened.

They already did:

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=529092975710629&set=a.524617522824841

We at Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab are aware of customer complaints regarding use of digital technology in our mastering chain. We apologize for using vague language, allowing false narratives to propagate, and for taking for granted the goodwill and trust our customers place in the Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab brand.

We recognize our conduct has resulted in both anger and confusion in the marketplace. Moving forward, we are adopting a policy of 100% transparency regarding the provenance of our audio products. We are immediately working on updating our websites, future printed materials, and packaging — as well as providing our sales and customer service representatives with these details. We will also provide clear, specific definitions when it comes to Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab marketing branding such as Original Master Recording (OMR) and UltraDisc One-Step (UD1S). We will backfill source information on previous releases so Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab customers can feel as confident in owning their products as we are in making them.

We thank you for your past support and hope you allow us to continue to provide you the best-sounding records possible — an aim we've achieved and continue to pursue with pride.

Jim Davis
President, Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab See less

xp - Yeah, apparently they've already started to tweak their new release descriptions. It will absolutely continue. Not only do the companies selling the snake oil have too much to lose at this point, but the buyers in are never going to willingly admit to being duped for tens of thousands of dollars.

They were probably on precarious ground, but I kind of liked MFSL in the late '00s through the mid '10s when you could count on all of their SACD's being marked down to $15 within six months of release, often with 20% off discount codes during the holidays.

(from "All Analog! No Digital!" to "All Analog? No, Digital!")

lol

Yeah pretty much. They're all good formats, how it's mastered matters a thousand times more.

It'll be easier to get their vinyl, that's for sure. Part of the reason they did DSD (maybe the biggest reason) is that labels don't want to let their masters out of their facility anymore. So the only way to go AAA is if they ask the label to create analog 1:1 copies for them, but then they have to admit they aren't cutting from the original master. I think that's what Hoffman's done in the past without telling anyone, at least with certain labels. He had to because of his reputation, but unfortunately MFSL are in the same boat now that Sony and at least one of the other majors won't let anyone check them out, regardless of their reputation.

The 40,000 copies of Thriller don't even drop til November haha

Yes, but the most glaring takeaway is that nobody noticed. All those people with golden ears and impeccable gear profiles.

i think this is a strawman point. i don't think i have heard anyone anywhere ever claim they can hear the difference between the source and a 4xDSD copy. that is a ginormous sample rate.

It's not about it being a valid point, it's more about dropping that into an audiophile forum where members very frequently brag about how great their ears are and watching the outraged reactions. It's A++++ trolling.

i guess. i am from a pre-trolling generation and don't really get the point of goading people for things they haven't asserted. seems trumpish. i do get irony though. usually.

Not usually a big fan of purposeful trolling either, but there is a really self-serious element over on those forums that berates people on the regular for daring to comment on sound quality without "good" equipment. I have no problem with those folks getting their noses tweaked from time to time.

i hear you. my age would make be a logical candidate for that forum but those guys lack poetry and remind me too much of the hard realities of life.

i do think the redbook cd standard kind of stinks though, which gets me in trouble here. they're not using 4xDSD for nothing.

I was under the impression that no format current exists to take advantage of 4xDSD's resolution - like they still have to downsample it quite a bit for even current SACD. I wonder if a higher resolution digital format will ever happen - given the state of the market, SACD and Blu-ray feel like the end of the line.

*currently

also *physical digital format

i understand they are making physical <<trigger warning>> MQAs.

which hits the trifecta: digital, lossy, and proprietary. they are supposed to sound great though. i've never heard that format.

it's perfectly fair to nail MoFi on this for false or misleading advertising, and MoFi should be chagrined and embarrassed. That said, I also agree that in most cases it's doubtful anyone could actually hear a difference.

"the only way to go AAA is if they ask the label to create analog 1:1 copies for them, but then they have to admit they aren't cutting from the original master. I think that's what Hoffman's done in the past without telling anyone, at least with certain labels"

I believe he took his name off the Joy Division reissues because of this situation.

How has no one made a Garfield joke yet

we should mail all the tapes to Abu Dhabi?

so maybe the wrong place to ask this (and please lmk if so) BUT—

what about old mofi pressings? like late 70s/early 80s? has doubt been cast onto those as well, now?

(i have a few. they sound fine. never really compared side by side with regular pressings though.)

my age would make be a logical candidate for that forum but those guys lack poetry and remind me too much of the hard realities of life.

late 70's / early 80's pressings presumably wouldn't have digital involved since it didn't/barely existed at that time. who knows about the provenance of the tapes though

Austin, michael fremer has some interesting history about that on his youtube channel

xpost heh which one?

the guy who made the original video, from what I gather he has been steadfastly pro-analog and anti-digital due to some kind of misshapen Van Halen brown m&m logic: AAA is better because there are more hoops you have to jump through and so it “forces” you to be more thoughtful about what you’re doing. whatever, this is a problem for rich people with high end playback systems.

I don't know about but MOFI but I've read that use of a digital delay for preview at the cutting stage has been standard for vinyl since the "early 80s." Not sure how standard by when exactly but the system was introduced in 1979. Certainly the audio on most regular vinyl cuts from the mid 80s would have gone through a digital stage and back before hitting the lacquer xps

Links via the hoff forums -

1979 advert and patent for the Ampex Audio Digital Delay -

https://reel2reeltexas.com/vinAd79AmpexATR100ADD1.jpg
https://patents.google.com/patent/US4348754

man, into the dumpster with my depeche mode records.

For a messageboard that will spend whole pages correcting the most trivial minutiae, I'm shocked that no one has stepped up to right this wrong:

https://i.imgur.com/HumHUMP.png

The old MFSL records are sought after, somewhat, but I don't think they'd qualify as grail pressings to anyone really. They were limited enough that those versions of sought-after catalog titles command a premium, eg. Beatles/Stones, etc. But any vintage Dark Side of the Moon or Sticky Fingers is going to be sought after.e Also, if you actually look at their discography, they did a huge amount of essentially dollar records- Crusaders, Joe Sample, etc- worth almost nothing, audiophile version or not.

The most valuable MFSLs are the old UHQRs which are pretty rare, but more often than not newer pressings like the One Step boxes especially the Santana, Sea Change, the newer Grateful Dead ones, etc. I think theres a more recent REM pressing that's surprisingly valuable (surprising because its one of the more common 80s records, I can't remember which one). Overall though, at least for the classic rock and jazz titles, the MFSL isn't anywhere even close to the most valuable/sought after versions of those records. I'd say the mono Freewheelin Bob Dylan at 45 RPM is one of the best sounding records I've ever heard, though.

I work at a record store and the Hoffman People IRL show their hands rather quickly. I do appreciate one regular customer who trades in whatever "secret hot stamper" flavor of the month weirdo international pressing when he ostensibly isn't that impressed by it... yes, afraid I do get my jollies via Chilean Beatles and Dutch Bowie pressings.

I guess Justin Perkins (Tommy Stinson's bassist and mastering engineer for the Replacements box sets) is the latest professional to get fed up with the nuts on the forum. Both his account and his posts are now all deleted.

There's currently a thread vigorously arguing that Robin Trower is "Stoner Rock" just as much as Kyuss etc

I mean, these are arguments I've never even considered and would be willing to read, like, one post about — not 37 pages.

A certain banned ilxor has spent about 38 pages of the current Blur thread demanding no one enjoys The Magic Whip

That sucks about Perkins, I remember him getting bent out of shape by some assholes about the latest Replacements box and someone kept insisting that they were done against the wishes of the band.

I check on that place once a day because they sometimes get news first or they'll have info about sales or whatever, but it's so exasperating. Definitely the vibe of being in an overpriced record store with a bunch of dudes nerding out on the Beatles and joking about how rap music is more like crap music.

There is a reggae thread on there that is drama free and chock full of great info.

I have been really getting my Hoffman hate on reading the stereocentral forums lately. Neat!

also, I think someone not entirely benign has been uploading photos of him on his discogs “artist” page