steve hoffman forums, C or D?

oh wait i might've paid an extra dollar for the fully analog Loveless. I'm a hypocrite

not going to deny it, i love the charity shop thread that i hang out on ..

lol Tarfumes, amazing find

those quotes might be a hint.

It’s impossible that they are digital because so many people on here can ‘sense the naturalness’ of analog over the ‘harsh superficial glare’ of digital. So they would have known already and told us.

i laughed too but geez those mofi guys are sampling at 4xDSD which is roughly 11,000,000 samples per second. that's got to be more or less transparent to anybody's ears.

never, the digital glare is caused by the shininess of 0s and 1s, you can never get rid of it, unless you use this power cable studded with crystals

Sounds like a secret society with a guru figure, with rituals done at home where they all connect together through their magic machinery, preserving a lost art known only to a few chosen (male) ones
Begging for an anthropological study.

he had this Mofi version of Bringing It All Back Home, a record I am quite familiar with
https://www.discogs.com/release/9486656-Bob-Dylan-Bringing-It-All-Back-Home
and I swear I was hearing things I had never heard before when he put it on

JFC, the median price for that on Discogs is $110 with one purchase going as high as $225.

For years, a brand-new copy of Mofi's SACD was typically sold direct from Mofi or Music Direct for $15-20 - it may still be available for $15-20 at any retailers who still have stock. And both the SACD and the vinyl were likely mastered from the same DSD transfers of the original mono master tape. (FWIW, the stereo version they put out is a digital remix, not worth it.)

I've got one myself, it's a definitely an upgrade, but no one in their right mind should dump an extra $100+ into the toilet just to have it carved into two slabs of vinyl.

*it's definitely

Man, they better not have lied about using the original master on this:

https://i.discogs.com/xorbQhHZeVxhlAMH1BLMfBzzglPLW8uaWIqo2qhB-pQ/rs:fit/g:sm/q:40/h:300/w:300/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE5OTAz/MjItMTQ5MjAzODU5/OC04MzUzLmpwZWc.jpeg

those quotes might be a hint.

Seems quite clearly to be sarcasm, to be fair to that poster.

Yeah, that one was pretty clearly sarcasm or trolling, but it's telling of that site in general that there was even a question. That said, I know a lot of those stereocental folks that set up an entire H0ffman burn forum like to troll the H0ffman forums with those kind of posts too.

i just stopped parsing sarcasm like ages and ages ago. i recommend it - it's done me a world of good. whatever someone says, i just treat it like they meant it seriously and unironically.

in fairness to sh.tv, this listening project some of them are doing where they listen to and review every single recorded version of dark star is pretty great. aside from _dots and loops_ basically the only music i've been listening to for the last year+ is dead boots, and the project was just _essential_ for me when i was compiling my greyfolded-style tc-era dark star mix.

https://everydarkstar.blogspot.com/

Man, they better not have lied about using the original master on this

That's actually a good one to have. I only hope the master didn't get damaged or destroyed in that fire some asshat caused on the Universal lot.

But yes, it's the original (and correct!) master.

i just stopped parsing sarcasm like ages and ages ago. i recommend it - it's done me a world of good. whatever someone says, i just treat it like they meant it seriously and unironically.

I am hard-wired to not detect sarcasm unless it's completely transparent and this tendency feels like a perk to me

I was not the world's biggest Kids in the Hall fan but this sketch has lived in my head for 30+ years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9vunDdxWLA

Oh no, what a personal disaster!

It's best to detect the sarcasm but respond like it's sincere, everybody wins.

there should be bb code for [ sarcasm ]that messes with capitalization or something

I remember reading about this thread back in June:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/will-sanctions-be-the-end-of-the-tube-resurgence.1134832/

A lot of vacuum tubes come from Russia, apparently. It's fascinating both for a glimpse into a peculiar worldview and also because it's 51 pages long.

On the other hand Russia was for a long time the only source of old-fashioned mercury camera batteries, so I can see where they're coming from. The frustrating thing is that in the early 2000s a lot of people assumed that camera film would never die because China and Russia would continue to pump it out forever, because it would be decades before digital cameras became a thing in the former second world. But of course digital cameras and eventually smartphones crashed in price, and in large parts of the world a smartphone is an indispensable daily tool, so camera film died a dead. It's still being made, or at least slowly repackaged from existing stocks, but it will never be cheaper than it was in the early 2000s. I'm digressing here.

I think many poaters on Stereo Central are a lot farther gone than on SH.tv itself

It's best to detect the sarcasm but respond like it's sincere, everybody wins.

― Halfway there but for you

i've found that in order to really respond to anything as if it's sincere, i kind of have to _believe_ it's sincere. otherwise it's just meta-sarcasm.

I would hope in 170 pages it would be pointed out, no matter what media is used, it probably more important who is actually running the lathe to cut the new vinyl master.

Yeah pretty much. They're all good formats, how it's mastered matters a thousand times more.

512 pages into that monster thread about MoFi now, but I really appreciate the poster that dropped this nugget in the middle of it all:

Yes, but the most glaring takeaway is that nobody noticed. All those people with golden ears and impeccable gear profiles.

What a wonderful long troll game these MFs have played on the AAA-holes ;-)

if you were running an experiment to definitively prove that all stuff was fully bullshit you couldnt have set it up any better, its just so hilariously perfect

Spot on. It's a placebo effect. To be fair, yeah, there are differences you can hear, but after a certain point, they start claiming you can tell if this orange was growing on this tree or the one next to it.

And yet, audiophilia will continue. Monster Cable managed to survive that "we replaced an expensive Monster cable with a wire hanger and no one noticed" thing years ago. MFSL will probably issue a vague "we goofed, sort of" statement, wording will be slightly tweaked on their release announcements (from "All Analog! No Digital!" to "All Analog? No, Digital!"), and everything will continue on as if it never happened.

They already did:

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=529092975710629&set=a.524617522824841

We at Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab are aware of customer complaints regarding use of digital technology in our mastering chain. We apologize for using vague language, allowing false narratives to propagate, and for taking for granted the goodwill and trust our customers place in the Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab brand.

We recognize our conduct has resulted in both anger and confusion in the marketplace. Moving forward, we are adopting a policy of 100% transparency regarding the provenance of our audio products. We are immediately working on updating our websites, future printed materials, and packaging — as well as providing our sales and customer service representatives with these details. We will also provide clear, specific definitions when it comes to Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab marketing branding such as Original Master Recording (OMR) and UltraDisc One-Step (UD1S). We will backfill source information on previous releases so Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab customers can feel as confident in owning their products as we are in making them.

We thank you for your past support and hope you allow us to continue to provide you the best-sounding records possible — an aim we've achieved and continue to pursue with pride.

Jim Davis
President, Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab See less

xp - Yeah, apparently they've already started to tweak their new release descriptions. It will absolutely continue. Not only do the companies selling the snake oil have too much to lose at this point, but the buyers in are never going to willingly admit to being duped for tens of thousands of dollars.

They were probably on precarious ground, but I kind of liked MFSL in the late '00s through the mid '10s when you could count on all of their SACD's being marked down to $15 within six months of release, often with 20% off discount codes during the holidays.

(from "All Analog! No Digital!" to "All Analog? No, Digital!")

lol

Yeah pretty much. They're all good formats, how it's mastered matters a thousand times more.

It'll be easier to get their vinyl, that's for sure. Part of the reason they did DSD (maybe the biggest reason) is that labels don't want to let their masters out of their facility anymore. So the only way to go AAA is if they ask the label to create analog 1:1 copies for them, but then they have to admit they aren't cutting from the original master. I think that's what Hoffman's done in the past without telling anyone, at least with certain labels. He had to because of his reputation, but unfortunately MFSL are in the same boat now that Sony and at least one of the other majors won't let anyone check them out, regardless of their reputation.

The 40,000 copies of Thriller don't even drop til November haha

Yes, but the most glaring takeaway is that nobody noticed. All those people with golden ears and impeccable gear profiles.

i think this is a strawman point. i don't think i have heard anyone anywhere ever claim they can hear the difference between the source and a 4xDSD copy. that is a ginormous sample rate.

It's not about it being a valid point, it's more about dropping that into an audiophile forum where members very frequently brag about how great their ears are and watching the outraged reactions. It's A++++ trolling.

i guess. i am from a pre-trolling generation and don't really get the point of goading people for things they haven't asserted. seems trumpish. i do get irony though. usually.

Not usually a big fan of purposeful trolling either, but there is a really self-serious element over on those forums that berates people on the regular for daring to comment on sound quality without "good" equipment. I have no problem with those folks getting their noses tweaked from time to time.

i hear you. my age would make be a logical candidate for that forum but those guys lack poetry and remind me too much of the hard realities of life.

i do think the redbook cd standard kind of stinks though, which gets me in trouble here. they're not using 4xDSD for nothing.

I was under the impression that no format current exists to take advantage of 4xDSD's resolution - like they still have to downsample it quite a bit for even current SACD. I wonder if a higher resolution digital format will ever happen - given the state of the market, SACD and Blu-ray feel like the end of the line.

*currently

also *physical digital format

i understand they are making physical <<trigger warning>> MQAs.

which hits the trifecta: digital, lossy, and proprietary. they are supposed to sound great though. i've never heard that format.

it's perfectly fair to nail MoFi on this for false or misleading advertising, and MoFi should be chagrined and embarrassed. That said, I also agree that in most cases it's doubtful anyone could actually hear a difference.

"the only way to go AAA is if they ask the label to create analog 1:1 copies for them, but then they have to admit they aren't cutting from the original master. I think that's what Hoffman's done in the past without telling anyone, at least with certain labels"

I believe he took his name off the Joy Division reissues because of this situation.

How has no one made a Garfield joke yet

we should mail all the tapes to Abu Dhabi?