Kate Bush

Wow, had no idea. I just looked it up - I'm actually not familiar with that slur at all, though I wonder if I've heard it at least once in something like an Australian film without realizing it?

oh god it's not the "b" slur is it?

nope, one of the others, that wasn't well thought through

meh, Fleetwood Mac's hit song from 1982 is an ethic slur and they never even renamed it

ethnic

The concept side of Hounds is really fucking good.

I went into The Dreaming the way you go into the second novel by someone whose first blew you away and face great disappointment. And thus both Kate Bush and Jeanette Winterson led me to love only one of their works for a long time.

Both the literary-ness and David Gilmour's involvement made Hound of Love feel in the same genre as Pink Floyd's concept albums, but it hit me in a way that those didn't.

*Hounds

xxp B word's new to me...really awkward to know that baggage given the other uses for that word. Reminds me of the original name of Paul Kelly's band and how it gained some unfortunate baggage when heard by American ears (hence a different name when promoted in the U.S.)

I only realized this week that classical guitar legend John Willians (not the film composer) is playing on "The Morning Fog", which is cool but raises questions for me. How did he get connected with the project and ... why get John Williams and then have him play what afaict are some basic arpeggios on a 2 min song that work perfectly well but could have probably been done by any working classical guitarist?

he wanted to meet Kate Bush!

I won't repeat the word but it relates to the first line of The Dreaming's lyrics. Not exactly the same word but the same sentiment as that which the song is calling out. Commonplace during my childhood, people laughed when explaining the meaning.
also xp John Williams is Australian so I suppose that's a theme

a sky of honey is her best extended concept piece

I have no real problems with Kate's early music or her vocal mannerisms from that period. But a good deal of that could be tied to nostalgia.

I was 7 when The Kick Inside came out and I remember that among my parent's generation, it was one of those records that nearly everyone had in their little collection of vinyl in the sideboard, to put when friends came over for a drink. Along with Oxygene, The Best of Bread/Dr Hook/Cliff and The War of the Worlds.

About 20 years ago I revisited Lionheart and still feel it is passed over somewhat unfairly, there are passages in those songs that are just so incredibly beautiful.

Her comeback gigs, I was lucky enough to see the first night and The NInth Wave was incredible, it was actually difficult to keep my shit together, and when she sang 'little light....' I just caved completely.

meh, Fleetwood Mac's hit song from 1982 is an ethic slur and they never even renamed it

― Jaime Pressly and America

Hold me?

The second one.

"Running Up That Hill" was #2 in this week's UK Singles midweek chart. It reached #3 in 1985, making it her biggest UK hit after "Wuthering Heights".

I had never really paid that much attention to the lyrics of "The Dreaming." It mostly sounded like nonsense to me except "See the light ram through the gaps in the land" and "pull of the bush." Nor did I really hear it as cultural appropriation or a half-assed attempt at making "indigenous" music. Now that I've read them, I can see that they are open to criticism, but I think the song was probably a well-intentioned, if misguided, attempt to call out colonialism.

Oooh, had no idea that one was a hit. Not the only hit with that title btw Crystal Waters and Shakira also have hits with that title and those are more recent hits. There also a very popular flamenco pop band from France / Spain that use it as their name.

In spanish the translation is not a bad word per se, it depends a lot of the context. But ime there’s very few racial slurs in Spanish language, and become only offensive by intent when joined by other adjectives or via ignorance.

For example the word for Chinese is Chino. Noone would get offended by the word Chino, but older generations use Chino to also describe Koreans or Japanese, where it stops being an inoffensive term and becomes problematic.

I lived in Peru in the early 90s, every Asian person was referred to as "chino." Fujimori, who was President at the time, was referred to as "Chinochet," which is both funny and offensive. One thing I thought was very clever was to refer to his administration as a "dictablanda."

hell, Cubans still refer to Asians as chinos.

Yeah, again it’s problematic but it isn’t used as a word to bring anyone down. Noone is trying to offend other asians by calling them chinos, it has become sort of a synonym for Asian. I’ve very rarely heard anyone in an informal context use “asiatico” as a descriptor, they’ll probably go straight to “chino” if they don’t know where they are actually from.

The members of the Gipsy Kings are Romani, so they have the option. As for chino, well... I heard it plenty when I lived in Argentina (it's what they call convenience stores in Buenos Aires) but I'd be asking people of Asian descent how they feel about it before I'd say it doesn't bring anyone down. I'm pretty sure, for example, that I'd rapidly get some strong pushback if I called all the Sudamericanos I encountered Argentinos.

Not to mention from argentinos.

América del Sud

I can tell you right now that I asked my Chinese husband about the term, and he said, "yeah, that's racist no matter how you slice it."

What if you aren’t trying to offend tho

(reminiscing about the time i was shocked to learn that some aussies say "$@mb0" in reference to a sandwich)

What if you aren’t trying to offend tho

― Wiggum Dorma (wins), Friday, June 10, 2022 11:51 AM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

not for someone who isn't Chinese to decide

Wait your chinese husband would be offended if called chino in spanish?

Or he is saying calling all asians chino is racist?

I agree with the second one.

And yeah I never describe all Asians as chinos before actually knowing if they’re actually chinese.

I agree table, was poking at the idea that “noone is trying to offend” = slurs don’t exist in Spanish

Slurs obviously do exist (indio to refer to “indigenas” in mexico, sudaka to refer to “southamericans” in spain), actually people from Spain can be pretty racist imho.

The slurs are very uncommon at least in latinamerica. I’m trying to think of slurs for blacks or asians or other latin countries in spanish and I honestly can’t think of any

If you’re tying to offend someone you say idk pinche mexicano o puto mexicano.

I asked my wife and it sounds like she agrees w/Moka (as far as she knows) - besides using a single term to refer to an entire group of ppl, like the example Moka cited

How did John Williams get connected with the project

My guess is through Hounds of Love engineer Haydn Bendall, who had produced Williams's quasi-prog rock group Sky the previous year.

In Peru at least, "cholo" is both a slur and a term of solidarity.

Ok if we take slur to mean words ringfenced for racism only - I was mainly responding to the example of an epithet being used racistly and the guessed intent of all the people racistly using it

My guess is through Hounds of Love engineer Haydn Bendall, who had produced Williams's quasi-prog rock group Sky the previous year.

Ha, I didn't know Williams did that.

lord I suffered the first two Sky albums when my parents felt they were like hip new approaches to the classics. At least I was introduced to Herbie Flowers thru the liner notes.

Wait your chinese husband would be offended if called chino in spanish?

Or he is saying calling all asians chino is racist?

I agree with the second one.

The second Sky album is rad, imo! Really fun listen.

Definitely meant the latter, particularly in this instance.
― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table)

Ok yeah I definitely agree. Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear earlier. I don’t do it and find it problematic, there’s a big Japanese community in my hometown and I have to constantly witness and correct people referring to Japanese friends as Chinese. It’s slowly fading away in younger generations, but yeah latinamerica is way behind in having a more “global” view of world.

Then again, you’d imagine Spain being in Europe would have more tact and education with these things, but based on my experience living and touring in both Spain and several countries of latinamerica, they don’t. So I can’t speak for the Spanish people as they are ime very divisive and casually racist towards everyone, even between them.

I know it’s a stereotype at this point but latinamericans are generally warm and friendly. Warmth is Slowly fading away in big cities tho.

"I was 7 when The Kick Inside came out and I remember that among my parent's generation, it was one of those records that nearly everyone had in their little collection of vinyl in the sideboard, to put when friends came over for a drink. Along with Oxygene, The Best of Bread/Dr Hook/Cliff and The War of the Worlds."

Many years ago I made up a list of LPs that people who had grown up in the late 1970s, early 1980s had in their collection of LPs, because they nicked them from their parents' record collection and they were still cool in the 1990s. Breathe in.

That list included - yes - Oxygene, The Kick Inside, War of the Worlds - but also Tubular Bells, Parallel Lines, one of the aforementioned Sky LPs, Breakfast in America, Out of the Blue, maybe I Robot.

It had to be super-mainstream, popular, lightweight and unthreatening but still possessed of a timeless coolness. Discogs' recommendations bar for Sky 2 mirrors this list although I disagree with some of its selections. Albeit that Discogs' recommendations are algorithmically-generated, so I suppose I'm disagreeing with the fabric of the universe, or something. I am the vampire and they are the normal people! It's a cookbook. [Columbo pulls out hands; he's wearing gloves].

Don't forget Trout Mask Replica

I don’t think too many people bought Trout Mask Replica(!)

My old man had it. He didn't have many people over.

Is Demis Roussos in that crowd, or am I just thinking of Abigail’s Party?

a long time ago madeaux released a remix of the placebo cover.
this evening soundcloud blocked me uploading it.
hey ho.

https://www.discogs.com/release/3491998-Madeaux-Song-2-Running-Up-That-Hill

XXXXXP - I started a thread about this a few years back -

Records your mother listened to in the seventies.