The Cure: Classic or Dud?

I know that Wish is not considered a Cure classic album especially following the last record. I tend to disagree and think it's great, it has "Open," "High," "A Letter to Elise," "End" and the Cure's best song on it "From the Edge of the Deep Green Sea." OH yeah "Friday I'm in Love" is remarkable too.

I know that Wish is not considered a Cure classic album

What? In what universe?

(He says, quite literally wearing a shirt from that tour.)

My favorite band of the 80s and probably all-time, so I'm a bit bias.

Reacting to xzanfar post, when he cut it at Mixed Up,

My favorite band of the 80s

I would have guessed New Order.

I could see that with my history of this board but The Cure own my heart.

The Cure and New Order in the early/mid 80s seemed very linked

I think it's clear the Cure and Joy Division influenced each other.

https://post-punk.com/when-joy-division-opened-for-the-cure/

i always considered the cure and depeche mode on par as dominating the 80s and they were label mates!

What? In what universe?

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, May 22, 2022 7:53 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

(He says, quite literally wearing a shirt from that tour.)

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, May 22, 2022

Seconding -- that lineup's most fully realized album.

I was an INTENSE Cure fan in the mid-late 80s, heard Wish once and knew I was done.

Wish is the last album anyone needs to hear from the Cure. All the big 80s bands should have quit in 92/93 (Depeche Mode, New Order, The Cure, PSB). Yes they have written good songs here and there since then, but nothing that changes their legacy has happened after 93.

Seconding -- that lineup's most fully realized album.

IMO Wish was a surprisingly strong effort from a band whose relevance was waning - but would suggest it is in fact the weakest of that line-up's LPs (if we are talking about the Smith-Gallup-Thompson-Williams core here) - HotD, KM3 and Disintegration all much more satisfying and consistent albums

All the big 80s bands should have quit in 92/93

I'm not that big a Depeche Mode fan, but Ultra still shows them in a growth arc.

Re: Wish -- maybe it's because it was the first Cure record I every listened to (aged 13-14), but IMO it's start-to-finish fantastic, and I'm never quite sure why it's had a slightly feeble reputation with the fans. I agree it's their last fully interesting album -- although tbh Faith, Boys Don't Cry and Disintegration are the only ones I've ever been able to listen to all the way through.

(I guess Boys Don't Cry isn't a proper album but I never realised that at the time...)

but would suggest it is in fact the weakest of that line-up's LPs (if we are talking about the Smith-Gallup-Thompson-Williams core here)

hey, Disintegration's there waiting to be denounced.

I'm not entirely sure a 92/93 cut-off works for PSB. Significantly more great stuff than actively bad stuff for maybe a decade beyond their commercial imperial phase.

You'll have to prise Nightlife from my cold, dead hands, etc, etc

Wish is their New Jersey, clearly

Elysium seems like their only entirely neglible EP. I haven't heard Hotspot

The Top is such a great album. I listen to it more often than Seventeen Seconds or Faith. I think it's a better album than Seventeen Seconds, which feels increasingly thin to me.

the only thing the top has over seventeen seconds is THE MIGHTY BANANA SONG.

my challops re:the top is that i prefer it over pornography and always have.

You can make a credible argument that any Cure album in the run from Seventeen Seconds through Disintegration is their best album

(It’s really Pornography, though)

Yep another big The Top lover here. Have happily spent very long periods of time discussing it.

That said, replace "Piggy in the Mirror" with e.g. "New Day" and it'd be even better

“Piggy in the Mirror” is one of their most underrated songs, as far as I can tell

I do like it but its the relative weak song on the album if anything has to be imo

Nah, the weak song is “Birdmad Girl” by a huge margin IMO

BMG is one of my favourites - not least as its Anderson veering towards disco territory (I love that he tries out a lot of things throughout the record) - but I think I've seen every song bar Shake Dog Shake and The Caterpillar singled out as the weakest by someone so it's one of those albums I guess.

Piggy.. is amazing.

Pornography remains my fave early album. I used to love Seventeen Seconds, but now think (to be crude) it's Play for Today and A Forest surrounded by thin gruel.

"Birdmad Girl" is brilliant and echo the above, I'd listen to it for the hi-hat patterns alone. "The Empty World" I nearly always skip because of the keyboard melody, it sounds like the music from an irritating TV ad for Cottees Cordial (Kool-Aid type stuff) from the 80s and I never want to hear it again. And yeah, Piggy is incredible, I can't think of a song remotely like it, apart from maybe The Glove album in places.

also "The Top" is my pick of the "bleak title track to end the album" thing they did for the first five.

also Duke wtf, how about "M" and "At Night" for starters? That era is my favourite live, too.

Birdmad Girl is the best song on that album

I love "The Empty World" and again I enjoy how the marching beat is the Anderson variety hour in effect. The idea of essentially doing a whole Cure song on the snare is a nice inverted treat considering how many Cure tracks are all about toms.

re 17 secs - i always used to feel it was light on actual good songs - but now all the cobwebby/spooky radiophonic interludes and not-quite-songs are what makes it great?

also 'in your house' is one of my favourite cure songs

I love "Concert" for the spectacle of Andy blasting the shit out of tracks which used to sound insular and secret, "One Hundred Years" sounds like a cruise missile compared to the dank clatter of the original (which I also love).

The Concert version of “Shake Dog Shake” is also very special, largely due to Andy

but now all the cobwebby/spooky radiophonic interludes and not-quite-songs are what makes it great?

Yes yes! I love how open-ended it is.

I think "One Hundred Years" is strangely quite weak and defanged on Concert but Andy does a great job of it. And it builds up to excellent versions of A Forest, 10:15 and Arab.

I know everyone says this but I'm forever surprised Concert even exists. Weirdest timing ever for a Cure live album full stop, let alone the first.

best live cure album?

None are perfect but maybe Show and Paris (the former is much better as the film). And actually the original Entreat is probably just as good as well for what it is (I'm aware I've given half of their live albums as an answer).

For me, yes, although it is pretty badly recorded and could do with a solid remaster. re Andy, I don't think I'd call him the best Cure drummer, but probably the best drummer who was in The Cure.

Entreat is the best Cure live album

Would rather listen to Entreat (at least the original 8-song version) than Disintegration these days

i really like the disintegration live in dallas stuff. i tried to put the whole thing on youtube, but it got blocked. that's most of it. kind of like an alternate entreat.

also xpost to recent mix/mastering discussion on Awesome Audiophile Snake Oil — original entreat mix vs entreat plus mix FIGHT

Entreat original mastering x10000

remaster loses that slightly clinical icy quality to the sound - i always used to picture myself standing in the middle of an empty arena watching the band play and hearing every instrument and part in perfect clarity

didn’t they fiddle with the snare sound on the remaster?

also the songs were really well-chosen on the OG album - hearing the extra tracks detracts rather than adds to the experience imo