RAdiohead

I don't get the centrist TERF stuff in the UK. Does it help grow the left at all? I'm thinking about how "progressive" centrist politicians in the US in Canada get a pass from leftier voters for very window dressing tolerance messaging, while drifting right in every other respect

Hey you know what's easy for me, a person who has no problem with trans people and who also uses Twitter? Not reading/"accidentally" liking anti-trans Tweets. Like I don't even have to try not to.

Shoutout to Chris; JG is a huge coward for this.

hey things happen. let's get out there and profess our eagerness to remain ignorant lol

I didn't know the guy from Teenage Fanclub was a transphobe. That's depressing.

I don't think it's just one guy from Teenage Fanclub. Half the time some terf bullshit ends up on my Twitter timeline "followed by Norman Blake" appears above it. he's quiet about it at least

JK Rowling also feigned being an “accidental” transphobe before doubling down on her stance.

I will never understand the motivation to attack trans folk, jesus christ life is hard enough and what on earth could it possibly gain you to make someone else feel miserable for who they are? Power and hatred are the only believable answers to me. Sorry this is gender politics 101 but sometimes the outrage brims over.

― assert (matttkkkk)

Most of the time I feel this is all fueled by political bullshit. It’s true most people wouldn’t gain a thing from hating on another specific group of people, politicians though: they win big by making people pick imaginary sides.

Otm. It's stupid culture war propaganda and it's extra disappointing that anybody —but especially someone like JG— fell for it.

JK Rowling also feigned being an “accidental” transphobe before doubling down on her stance.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, April 28, 2022 7:21 AM

I didn't want to mention this. But I was certainly thinking it.

I will never understand the motivation to attack trans folk, jesus christ life is hard enough and what on earth could it possibly gain you to make someone else feel miserable for who they are? Power and hatred are the only believable answers to me.

I have had conversations with some people who express real or feigned distress at having to "play along with someone's delusions." I have the impression that some people are very uncomfortable with difference, as it tends to undermine their very fixed ideas of "reality." I also think that in many cases there is a fair amount of insecurity about their own identities.

I've made my stance on this pretty clear, but I just want to say, even though it's a cliche we're all thinking this constantly about anyone who is anti-LGBTQ:

there is a fair amount of insecurity about their own identities.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Thursday, April 28, 2022 7:58 AM

xpost on that note, there was an entire South Park ep that basically insinuated trans people were 'cosplaying' as other genders, long before the 2019 transphobic episode that eventually landed them in hot water.

which happened to be like the 4th episode they made based around that concept, which also happens to be the same hacky punchline that the Babylon Bee uses over and over and over and over again

I mean it just comes down to the core tenet of conservatism which is that everything needs to be filtered through your own personal viewpoint and if it doesn't affect you or offend you then it's not a real issue, and everyone who claims it is is just virtue signaling for woke badges or whatever. We shouldn't do anything about cops because they don't hassle us. We can't cancel student debt because I paid mine off already. We should boot out all the immigrants, except for the ones I know personally. Covid can't be real because I haven't gotten it yet. I'm in decent shape so it's inexcusable for anyone to be overweight. Censorship is bad when it comes to the hate speech & misinformation I base my entire personality on but good when it comes to actual facts that could make straight white people like me feel a little uncomfortable. It's all the same principle. They hate on trans folk because it doesn't make sense to them and therefore can't be a real thing, plus it leads to some real lazy humor which TRIGGERS liberals and therefore ought to be joked about constantly.

it’s also a challenge to the precious institutions and traditions they correctly fear will be eroded once people figure out the whole thing is a set up to make rich conservative men richer and more entrenched in power

and yeah frogbs otm with the debt forgiveness analogy, you will see a lot of cis women who believe the suffering they’ve endured as part of their gender is an essential condition of that gender and their identity and how dare anyone claim to be a woman without going through that same suffering

of course it’s a selfish position bc it willfully ignores all the suffering trans women do go through

this is also why a lot of otherwise reasonable ppl fall for the transphobic argument that trans women are "socialized male" and thus experience "male privilege"

it’s also a challenge to the precious institutions and traditions they correctly fear will be eroded once people figure out the whole thing is a set up to make rich conservative men richer and more entrenched in power

― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, April 28, 2022 9:35 AM

Reminder that there are people who believe Black folks don't deserve true equality because they will "take revenge" once they've got it. This is just another bullshit excuse to justify being a prick.

Which Johnny Greenwood is. Fuck you Johnny. Your band stole all of its good ideas and your film scores are boring pieces of shite that no one would care about if you hadn't played guitar on "Creep." You're not even the ugliest member of your band of uglies. Fucking prick.

I regret buying and listening to anything by Radiohead.

and yeah frogbs otm with the debt forgiveness analogy, you will see a lot of cis women who believe the suffering they’ve endured as part of their gender is an essential condition of that gender and their identity and how dare anyone claim to be a woman without going through that same suffering

of course it’s a selfish position bc it willfully ignores all the suffering trans women do go through

― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, April 28, 2022 5:38 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is also why a lot of otherwise reasonable ppl fall for the transphobic argument that trans women are "socialized male" and thus experience "male privilege"

― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, April 28, 2022 5:43 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

not to put too much thought into transphobia which is honestly pretty baffling to me but it seems like people, and a lot of otherwise liberal people, are religiously attached to the biological essentialism of identity, as if they couldn't function without it. gender is like one of the most malleable traits on our planet and other species literally make it up all the time. but somehow it threatens family values or whatever to think otherwise, which, i mean, good, fuck family values lol.

i accidentally went down the Suzanne Moore rabbit hole as a result of all of this and I want to throw up now

the reason so many leftists wind up uncritically circulating among the TERF crowd is that lots of leftists are also bad people, plain and simple.

almost as if we should give up the idea that having similar political beliefs makes one immune to being a useless sack of shit.

wasn't meaning that to sound snarky at anybody here, because this forum realizes that better than the outside world.

It's true tho.

Very true. Everyone otm.

Sorry for my outburst, but ffs when did basic human rights become conditional?

You guys are all insane

People adopt "TERF" ideologies because they're basically people, like my mom, who think that "having lived as male means they have male privilege", because they're 70 and they grew up in a period when women's rights were (as now) under attack, and continue to have a Dworkin-esque hangover penisphobia hangover, which is annoying, because I have a penis, but I'm not a man, and it's totally fine, and we talk and they learn but I understand that they (my mom, that is) have lived through decades of misogyny and it's hard for them to accept anti-essentialism when they've been fighting against The Man for so long

I literally don't give a shit about Jonny Greenwood except for the fact that he's a great film composer who I look up to and even if he were to come out as a child-shitter (that is, a person who actively seeks to shit on children) I probably would still appreciate his contributions to the world of film scoring, because...

...anybody who seeks to impose moral superiority over somebody who is clearly gifted at their craft is expressing nothing but a frustration at their own perceived lack of agency instead of anything meaningful or worthwhile

The actual transphobes are elsewhere

The enemy is elsewhere

Jonny Greenwood does not shit on children but if he did his soundtracks would still be worth our attention

It sucks he liked that shitty tweet but I find it far weirder that people like KNOW WHO HIS WIFE IS and PAY ATTENTION TO THE TWEETS SHE LIKES than anything fucking else, like Radiohead fans, get the fuck out of my kitchen, are you music listeners or fucking creepy stalkers

And enjoy your Radiohead (if you enjoyed it to begin with)

listen, i'm not directly communicating with anyone who believes transphobic things here so like... just let me fucking talk about it as i experience it fgti

i'm certainly not talking about your mom

god now i wish i hadn't ever posted anything about this

i'm glad you did fwiw

do i agree that i shouldn't even know this information about johnny greenwood? i certainly do, i said as much

(I think most posters here aren't equating those who actively put a target on trans individuals' backs with deliberately-coded dog whistles or blatant hate speech a la Suzanne Moore and examples like fgti's mother as being one and the same - one often being the consequence of the other, in fact).

and yes, i actually find it *more* frustrating when people who should nominally be on my side adopt terf ideologies, i know they're not the real enemy

also just like try not to walk into a conversation with "you guys are all insane"

Brad, you deserve your space in here so keep posting away, if you want/need to.

xpost otm

I’ll be more specific

And I take back “you’re all insane”

If we are scanning the “likes” of the wives of semi-famous composers to try and form our own opinions of whether or not we should engage with the product of the composer’s primary product then we have lost our way

I am technically insane, so that would be like me starting a post with

You guys are all reading this on a laptop.

Maybe true, maybe not. Don't know.

What I do know is that Brad (and everyone else) is allowed to vent here.

(Which is why my earlier post is a bit messy. Apologies. What if I told you that this is an issue that I'm passionate about?)

it's not just her likes, her entire account is far-right antivax shit, it's very blatant. but i agree that his wife's shitty views don't matter at all - if greenwood started even hinting at antivax stuff too then it'd be "oh that's where he got it from" but he hasn't. no one in here is even talking about his wife!

him likely having some transphobic sympathies is certainly concerning and disappointing though. it's not at the level where i'm never going to listen to radiohead again but i don't think it's wrong to be very wary. if he were to become publicly deranged about trans people in the way that say, the drummer from teenage fanclub has, then that would certainly cross that line though.

would you still be defending it as not worth caring about if he'd liked a few blatantly racist or homophobic tweets & followed popular racist/homophobic writers? no one's even saying they're never listening to radiohead/his scores again, just expressing disappointment

I don't get the centrist TERF stuff in the UK. Does it help grow the left at all?

well centrists are opposed to the left! it can be a problem on the left and does seem to be more of one in the uk than elsewhere, but that's getting a bit away from the topic.

no one's even saying they're never listening to radiohead/his scores again, just expressing disappointment

I did. I was throwing a fit.

But I likely won't be listening to anything by choice for a long time.

I mean I’m glad he’s not actively posting transphobic tweets himself. It’s still not the alignment I expected from him.

He’s usually very private. I hope he learned a lesson about how many fans can be potentially hurt by this. All of Radiohead members seem very sensitive folks and I wont stop enjoying their music over this.

Hope he learns something over this bullshit and doesn’t double down on this circus.

xp oh i missed that but whatever, i don't have a problem with that, people can draw the line where they want

brief history of uk "feminist"-transphobia is that unlike in the rest of the world where the biological essentialist end of radical feminism was always a fairly niche position, in the uk it caught on a little later and some of its adherents (germaine greer, julie bindel, suzanne moore, etc.) ended up with significant positions in the media. this helped to mainstream its basic positions in a way that didn't happen elsewhere, laying the ground for the transphobic backlash of the last decade in the uk from many people who consider themselves socially progressive. of course, if you dig into it you can find that those writers are deeply reactionary on all sorts of other issues, and that their feminism is significantly just about defending their existing privileges as upper-middle class white women. the uk also never had much of a third wave of feminism to really grapple with that type of upper-middle class white reactionary feminism in the way that the us did.

He liked a vile tweet then blamed fat thumb, which may or may not be true. He's been a public(ish) figure for decades, has he actually said anything transphobic? I mean he may well be a transphobe, but the evidence is a bit thin to be throwing away your Radiohead records just yet.

he hasn't said anything, just liked a few tweets & is following the whole set of uk transphobic columnists but not like, any activists beyond that

which is why i'm disappointed and wary but nothing more yet

thanks for that history ufo

No one here is scanning Likes (and maybe no one did at all... isn't "X person you followed liked this tweet" part of the Twitter timeline?). This started because given the chance to turn what he claims is a misunderstanding into anything the least bit positive, he chose to say...pff i don't know what all this is about, i just happen to read a bunch of people who think like this. Ridiculous.

yeah the default setting on twitter makes likes show up on the timeline sometimes, i think that's usually how people notice this stuff and only then do they start digging to see if it's indicative of anything more

...anybody who seeks to impose moral superiority over somebody who is clearly gifted at their craft is expressing nothing but a frustration at their own perceived lack of agency instead of anything meaningful or worthwhile

yikes

that is one of the wildest things I've read on ilx in a while--do you actually believe that?

and yes I agree that digging up JG's wife's anti-vax views to shit on JG is feeble

realize now that the thread bump was something that came between JG's Big Like and him addressing it so i shouldn't have said the latter is why we're talking about this here. It's just why i bothered to.

JG was even posting pro-vaccine news on his twitter iirc and is vaccinated himself.

Pinning anything he thinks or does on his wife is problematic for so many reasons. A man of his cultural importance and international fame has been surrounded by people with many opposing thoughts through the years. are we going to start pushing people against the wall for other people they interact with?

Can any of you even prove he's interacted with his wife?!

marriages, like retweets, should not be viewed as endorsements. Moka is otm. There are frothing fans out there that have it out for his wife and are really suspicious of jonny because of her, and fuck that. It's his own tweet that got me.

and yeah frogbs otm with the debt forgiveness analogy, you will see a lot of cis women who believe the suffering they’ve endured as part of their gender is an essential condition of that gender and their identity and how dare anyone claim to be a woman without going through that same suffering

― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, April 28, 2022 9:38 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

i will say i was prob talking shit here and fgti's assessment that it's more of a dworkin-era hangover of hating penises bc so many men with them wanted to control their reproductive rights, but even then idk, it's not as if the struggles of feminism and the struggles of trans women are not so intimately interwoven as to be the same thing, it just requires so little of a leap to want to protect other women from the same fucking demons!!!

i admit that i am venting my potentially off base and ahistorical feelings about left-leaning people adopting transphobic positions bc i am overemotional during and chronically avoidant of any kind of conflict

wow i sure forgot to put all of the words in that post that were supposed to be there. anyway i'm sorry for getting heated, i felt bad