terror twilight

Listening to WZ now after listening to TT, and the main thing that you notice is how much more present the lead guitar is. I think Pavement often works best as a dialog between Malkmus's slacker mumbles and yelps and the twisty, melodic lead guitar lines. The guitar needs to be there as a foil, to bring out the melodic content that can get lost in the mumbled vocals by themselves. On TT, the lead guitar mostly goes missing, and the tasteful more polished accompaniment leaves the vocals too exposed.

I think you’re into something there, o. nate.

yeah thats a great point. it's almost like TT is the sound of them trying to do a back-to-basics/"5 guys playing in a room" record focused on band interplay, while forgetting that Pavement is... not that kind of band

5 guys playing in a room, until Malkmus erases a lot of what those guys are doing and does it himself or brings in a session musician.

Yeah - "back to basics" is a curious characterization of TT, given how it was produced/recorded.

I've been listening to CRCR: LA's Desert Origins today. All the bonus stuff from that period is so good, the band was really on fire.

(It’s also true that Malk’s lead gtr playing in those days was just awesome, and that spark kind of dimmed after WZ, for whatever reason)

"5 guys playing in a room" maybe captures more of the idea, at least in terms of how the end result was supposed to sound, if not in fact how it was to be recorded. It does seem like they were going for a small-group ensemble sound with balanced contributions from each instrument, instead of a sound that was largely shaped around one instrument, ie the lead guitar. Not sure why Malkmus in particular wanted to do that. Later in his solo career, he embraced his inner shredder, so to speak, on guitar-dominated efforts like "Real Emotional Trash".

xp

Its fun to speculate about the psychology. Maybe Malkmus was feeling like he was outgrowing the band and experiencing some guilt about that. Indie rock culture in those days kind of fetishized subsuming your ego to the larger unit (all the abstract band monikers and the showy disdain for pecuniary motives). So it was almost like he overcompensated by trying to create a simulacrum of a happy balanced egalitarian band sound on TT, even if he had to play all the parts himself. Also maybe why his lyrics on TT sound a bit petulant and self-pitying.

It's hard not to wonder a little how the album would have turned out if Godrich had never gotten involved. Like, if things had worked out at the original Portland session, and the band had just rolled with it. As a non-musician, it's a little hard for me to understand why the guys had such trouble picking up the songs at first (beyond maybe just being out of practice). Are the compositions really so complex?

Like, just listening to this version of "Pueblo Domain" playing on my speaker now – this is the guys at a Peel Session, they probably didn't do a ton of rehearsing, and it does not seem like this song is much less complex or easier to learn than something like "Folk Jam"(?)

I’m not a musician but Folk Jam seems like it has way more changes.

Everything I’ve read - in the press, in the reissue- seems to boil down to this: Malkmus practiced, and was a never ending quest to become a better musician, and the others kinda didn’t.

Wow! Mangled language, but you get what I mean.

He probably felt like he was carrying the whole band (and surrounding enterprise) on his back, and had had enough. It seemed like this is part of why he brought Nigel in for the album, to help carry some of the load in a way.

Yeah - "back to basics" is a curious characterization of TT, given how it was produced/recorded.

sure of course its not actually that kind of an album, but o nate's observations got me wondering if that kind of a sound was in anyone's mind. but because pavement the band unit wasnt actually capable of that (see: portland sessions), the tastefulness of the arrangements almost seem like malk was trying to frankenstein that sound together post facto (alongside whatever else was happening with godrich.) he's certainly enough of a music fan to be aware of the trope of the tasteful mature "no fireworks" kind of mid-career rock album.

Maybe, but I feel like BTC already kind of was that album? TT felt very much like a self-conscious “studio product“ – with its psychedelic smears, guest musicians, etc.

It’s their Siamese Dream, lol

They should’ve work with Butch Vig; maybe Thurston & Kim could’ve helped negotiate a discount…

Who’s fault is it? I think it’s sm’s…looking back to Brighten, the slog had started, eg “type slowly”

It's all about the drummer--Steve is a naturally slower drummer, even Malkmus admits that on the new Matador podcast. Gary wouldn't have known what to do with the newer/slower songs on BTC/TT but I mean, imagine Janet W. on some of the numbers. . .

also it's OTM about Malkmus being the only person actively trying to get better at an instrument. Spiral even complains about all of the hard chords in the newer songs, think it was in the Pitchfork thing.

new LA Times interview w/ SM says they're bringing a keyboard player on tour! curious who it'll be.

Rebecca Cole (from Wild Flag and the Minders)

ah ... makes sense.

but because pavement the band unit wasnt actually capable of that (see: portland sessions), the tastefulness of the arrangements almost seem like malk was trying to frankenstein that sound together post facto

Otm

SM wearing same shirt as seen on back cover of Starlite Walker?: https://www.instagram.com/p/CcvpxHEPyxS/

"Folk Jam" is much more enjoyable on this tour, partly because Malkmus's become a much better improviser so it's now a showcase for some mellow jamming.

Right when they go into the "Marquee Moon" segue, it can get really nice. (Not sure if every show has been like that though.)

listening to malkmus's demos from the deluxe reissue and i'm really surprised how synth-heavy they are. makes me wish the final album had malkmus's synth noodling all over it too, some of these are really great

i have to say i'm devastated to learn that it's "lip balm on watery clay" and not "ripple on watery clay" which i really loved as a predecessor to "relationships hey hey hey".

I think I thought it was “pitcher of watery clay”

I’ve come to realize that I didn’t correctly parse many of the lyrics on that album.

Malkmus giveth & malkmus taketh away.

i can hear both, but have always heard lip balm but i get it i get it

it's like malkmus anticipated those tiktok videos wherein you "hear" the person saying whatever words you're looking at

either way she kisses like a rock, okay

it was seriously a couplet i found solace in when going through issues with my partner. it would repeat in my head

Ripple on watery clay
relationships hey hey hey

there's something so comforting in that

and yeah, "you kiss like a rock but you know i need it anyway" is a beaut