Post a controversial music opinion

No, of course they are influential. Very much so.

I mean that music doesn’t exist in a vacuum, The Beatles weren’t doing things that were radically different, they were setting trends and the faces of rock/pop for a decade but they were absorbing the sounds bubbling up around them… the music panorama of the 60’s wouldn’t have been that different without them imho.

MBV and VU are definitely more unique but their status as being the most influential artists of their era seems a bit overblown to me.

As a counterexample I’d put a band like Pink Floyd as beingessential and/or influential as they say it is. I can’t think of any band from the same era that could have been a good substitute to what they were doing and the amount of influence and popularity they had in the 70’s.

idk if i follow this, the main argument in favor of the vu's influence is that they were little-noticed in their time but had an outsized influence on alternative music made in subsequent decades, not that they were particularly influential to the sounds of 60s music

doesn't matter where the influence manifested. they're still not as good as the majority would have one believe.

pink floyd is a good example of the inverse: the music of the 70s (and a lot that came after) sounds completely different without them.

the doors: now there's a truly shitty, truly overrated band. given the choice between listening to a doors album or a dog barking for 40 minutes, i'm picking the dog 100% of the time.

What if the dog is barking “People Are Strange”

yeah, i'm fine with that.

Austin have you heard "Doghouse by Neil Young?

Someone needs to make one of those novelty records where all of Jim Morrison's vocals are replaced with barking dogs.

Pink Floyd's "Doghouse by Neil Young." On Ummagumma.

Someone needs to make one of those novelty records where all of Jim Morrison's vocals are replaced with barking dogs.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, March 1, 2022 8:28 AM

when a novelty qualifies as a legitimate upgrade.

pink floyd is a good example of the inverse: the music of the 70s (and a lot that came after) sounds completely different without them

Does it?

I've heard a lot more bands cite VU as an influence than Pink Floyd (and I hear their music in a lot more bands, too - though that may be somewhat self-selecting, I don't know). I'd be interested to hear how one makes the "VU not actually so influential" argument, against all available evidence.

after years of being a reflexive doors hater i finally went through the discog last year and aside from the lyrics the doors were great idk

regardless of whether he deserved the status of rock poet (he didn't) morrison exuded an undeniable atmosphere which the band, a collection of outstanding musicians imo, either mirrors or subverts or jams out with, it's a great dynamic. admittedly i would listen through a lot of bullshit to hear densmore and krieger play

that is my controversial music opinion, the doors are good

The lyrics are fine for a rock band.

"aside from the lyrics"

lol defend the indefensible is thataway, friend.

also no one said vu wasn't influential.

Lyrics are the least important element in rock music.

I enjoy the occasional jam ("The Unknown Soldier") and I've stopped hating them -- it's pointless.

also no one said vu wasn't influential.

You said they're not as influential as Floyd.

There’s no absolute truths and this is the controversial opinion thread, so here’s a way to see it:

Yes, not many music sounds like Pink Floyd and that’s what makes them so essential. Argument could be that the more amount of artists that “sound” like you, the easiest it could’ve been to replace your spot in music history.

Pink Floyd’s influence came from the scope of their sound and atmosphere and textures and how they used the studio, they may not “sound” like them but a lot of classic albums from the 80’s owe a lot to Pink Floyd.

"aside from the lyrics"

lol defend the indefensible is thataway, friend.

I suppose there's no way you can post without being an asshat.

the doors rule

Argument could be that the more amount of artists that “sound” like you, the easiest it could’ve been to replace your spot in music history.

!

Hey, I’m in the correct thread!

Make the argument though!

I strongly disagree that MBV and VU were more unique than the Beatles.

To sound like Pink Floyd you needed expensive equipment and studio that most bands don’t have access to. You could start a band in your garage that sounds like VU

It would be hard for anyone to live up to the critical regard in which the VU are held but I do like their records.

xp But the studios & equipment didn't exist because of Floyd, whereas VU's sound/approach was pretty unique to them.

I think the idea that influence = bands that sound like another band is the most basic shallow way to look at influence

like once I was recording and the engineer was saying "i swear i hear a difference in drummers that came up before or after hip hop being mainstream" - he didn't mean it in the way that meant these bands were doing some sort of hip hop/rock thing (likely many of them weren't consciously influenced by hip hop at all) but just some underlying rhythmic sensibilities that he could place in how they approached their instruments and rhythm in general.

I don't know if you're still on the VU thing - but many/most artists citing VU as influence don't sound exactly like them, that's what makes the case strong. It's not just about a few slavish copies like Luna or whatever, you hear bits & pieces of VU throughout a huge swath of music that followed, and those artists also talk about how VU inspired them.

yes I agree w/that def. VU has influenced ppl in many different ways

wasn't speaking in particular, I just think in general influence is talked about in very X=Y type ways

Lyrics are the least important element in rock music.

― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, March 1, 2022 11:49 AM (twenty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yes I listen to Bob Dylan for the harmonica

Lol

yes I listen to Bob Dylan for the harmonica

Listening to Bob Dylan, that's your first mistake right there.

Also, isn't Dylan way less reverent about the words than his fanbase?

I doubt he regards them as the least important element.

Re influence, the composer Sarah Hennies posted this video on Twitter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErXbMB9R5-0

and said "Imagine seeing this video and thinking there is a need to start your own rock band."

Dylan comes to me as sound first, though: the adrenalinized rush of nonsense to match the guitars.

And I like the sound of his voice.

I was wondering who would be first to say they listen to Dylan for the soundscapes.

I...don't think this is so strange?

Dylan came through to many listeners as a whiny sarcastic sound

Same with the Beatles, Stones, Marvin Gaye. These are cool-sounding acts before I even penetrate the surface

The Doors are far more enjoyable to listen to than Pink Floyd

“Most of the time” is one of my favorite Dylan songs and the soundscape is definitely a part of it.

Dylan does seem more popular among English-speaking listeners than sarcastic singer-songwriters who work in other languages for some reason.