Big Thief - Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe In You

weird that the discourse around this record here now is “I want to fuck it”

It’s not a very sexy record, is it ?

maybe let's all take Sunday off from this thread, gather ourselves and come back Monday ready to get back to it.

Can you guys elaborate on this? I have no idea what it refers to (I don’t really hear Fleetwood Mac in Big Thief… who were their 2008 stans?)
― punching the clock on a tambo (morrisp), Friday, 18 February 2022 15:13 (two days ago) link

People have been mentioning tusk all thread lol?

Anyway I’m more suggesting that fleetwood Mac became like a hipster cause again circa 08 or whatever — when I was in hs/college I feel they were kinda uncool still, hangover of bill Clinton using don’t stop thinking about tomorrow on his campaign speeches maybe? Baby boomer rock that was cool was way more stones zep Hendrix centric. Things tilted back toward Mac in the mid-late 00s & it just accelerated since, I agree there are better historical analogues for big thief (the band keeps coming up over and over) but my point is it’s not like their sound his hitting at the apex of some 70s country-rock revival trend that they happen to be capitalizing on, were already through even the latest stage grateful dead phase—the obvious touchpoints for this band have been cool for like 15 years. If anything they’re “late” — but, and yet, through being Good it kind of doesn’t matter what their relationship to trends are

my 2LP came in the mail last night! i could have gotten the ecofriendly one but accidentally did not. guess what just came on?

whatsa gonna taaaaaaaaaaaa

xp Thanks for the elaboration, I guess... I still don't really follow, though you're clearly much more plugged into "trends" them I am. (I know ppl have been mentioning Tusk, but I don't hear the comparison beyond the fact it's a double album, or really get FM as a touchpoint for this music/band.)

imo there's a subliminal reason that fleetwood mac comes up with big thief

https://i.imgur.com/ie0vQD7.png

https://i.imgur.com/1cgczcX.png

TUSK!

Haha, nice

it's not just an aesthetic similarity (although it DEFINITELY is that), it's that Krivchenia frequently even plays like and sounds like Mick Fleetwood,
favoring the hi-hat heavily over the cymbals, often throwing in variations to the basic beats, rarely repeating anything exactly but still establishing a familiar rhythm

flower of blood sounds so goooood on my speakers. :) usually i prefer to listen to everything on headphones but this one does sound glorious on a sunday morning.

i think people are going to start to really annoyed when the inevitable Which Side is Best poll comes up, but there are legit arguments for all 4 here

btw if any Fleetwood Mac comes to mind when playing this album it's this and its country-adjacent vibes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo0p7zHKi_k

Little Things —> Red Moon is such an amazing stretch. Surrounded by other great stretches, but that's where the album really expands. Returning back to "Red Moon" is like, OK, now that we've shown you what we can do ...

I think if there is any Fleetwood Mac in this I'd think much more of the slightly skewed, gently psych rootsy songs off Kiln House, Bare Trees and Future Games not anything in the Buckingham/Nicks era

but also they could get the country ish stuff from a zillion different places, including but not limited to actual country music

I think the Mac comparison is fair. No they don't sound exactly like Fleetwood Mac but they don't NOT sound like them if you see what I mean

There's something about the ease of this that feels like a set of baggy clothes worn at the end of the day. And to murder the metaphor, meaning is kind of smuggled into the conversation or so soaked into the fabric of the clothing that it emanates like a hum.

I guess we're just chucking names about at this stage but no one has mentioned the Byrds, another band who used to wear their best music like a set of spangling waistcoats.

Little Things —> Red Moon is such an amazing stretch. Surrounded by other great stretches, but that's where the album really expands. Returning back to "Red Moon" is like, OK, now that we've shown you what we can do ...

The Bare Trees comparison makes most sense, down to the sleeve.

there's a fair few lead guitar tones on this album are reminiscent of buckingham's on tusk, that's where the comparison is strongest for me apart from the '20 song 80 minute rock/country/folk excellent double album' part that's more about form than anything else.

but one of the thing that makes this band so good is they're very much their own thing, never leaning too hard into their influences or anything. like there's a lot of fleetwood mac-influenced stuff over the last decade where it's very obvious exactly what they're drawing on, but here the connections are all looser and the end result is much more singular

i guess i hear a little bit of michael hurley / holy modal rounders going on, in the instrumentation and lyrical flights and off-center song construction.

Yeah that scene feels a good touchpoint for “Spud Infinity,” at least…

Something key to this band for me, though—despite all the RIYL-ing they inspire—is how they don’t feel strongly connected to any particular set of influences or musical tradition. (That’s why talk of this album in relation to “indie trends” of the past few decades doesn’t really jibe for me…)

OTM

I think what makes this a good record is the way that this certain group of musicians has developed a distinctive way of playing with each other. I think they are most influenced by themselves, the accumulation of time spent on the road, the practice space, the studio... that secret language a great band has.

all of which is really hard to pin down or talk about, which is why we all have been grasping at bands to compare them to.

Something key to this band for me, though—despite all the RIYL-ing they inspire—is how they don’t feel strongly connected to any particular set of influences or musical tradition. (That’s why talk of this album in relation to “indie trends” of the past few decades doesn’t really jibe for me…)

― punching the clock on a tambo (morrisp), Monday, 21 February 2022 01:46 (two hours ago) link

I feel like you’re agreeing with me!

let's just agree to agree

A new day, a new tune from this album sinks in. Today it's the quiet, unassuming "Promise is a Pendulum" which to all extents is a rewriting of Leonard Cohen's "Suzanne" and might even come off a bit generic and "heard before" if it wasn't for the "I'm just sayin'" lyrical device and the way Lenker's voice does this unexpected rise and crack every so often

im glad you pointed out “suzanne” in that one because i hear it too

that's one track that needs cutting tbh, i want the whole damn band u...u GRIFTER

eh i hear the similarities to "suzanne" but it's fairly vague, just about vibe & a similar vocal phrasing rather than anything more direct

Yeah, that one has really caught me over the last couple of days too, particularly the way she sings “I’m not saying I’m not jealous, or scared anymore…”. I think it’s one where not having the whole band kind of makes sense; the song seems to be (in part) about feeling small and humbled amongst the grandeur of nature, and it being a solo performance really enhances that feeling of vulnerability.

Other one rattling around in my head right now
is the start of Love Love Love with “I already died, I’m singin’ from the other side” which lyrically, vocally and instrumentally reminds me of Magnolia Electric Co.

It’s so fun waking up each morning and realising that there’s a new part of this unexpectedly living at the front of my brain.

she literally has lyrics from "Suzanne" by Cohen tattooed on her body, assuming she's a fan!

https://pitchfork.com/features/podcast/big-thiefs-adrianne-lenker-explains-her-biggest-influences/

I learned that in this very instructive podcast done when her recent solo album was released going through her most important musical influences:

John Prine (in more recent interview she cited his influence on Spud Infinity)

Pat Methany (dad's fav)

Iris Dement (very passionate about Infamous Angels)

Leonard Cohen (New Skin in particular)

Elliott Smith (Either/Or - can't believe that never occurred to me but duh)

Nina Simone - Live at Montreux

Twain - a newer artist I'm not familiar with who she calls "the greatest living songwriter)

and.....

......drum roll.....

Fleetwood Mac - Tusk 😲😯😯

twain is mat davidson, who plays keys & fiddle on a bunch of tracks on the new album & capacity

Heraring hints of Smashing Pumpkins on “Little Things” this time around. Then again, Corgan was also a Fleetwood Mac fan so maybe it’s just FM what I’m hearing.

Ok Heavy Bend and Flower of Blood are also sounding Corgan-esque to my ears now.

I’ve been listening to Smashing Pumpkins in the past few days so my ears are biased.

And I finally remembered what 90’s band “red moon” reminded me of: Blonde Redhead

Erm… “Blurred View” not “red moon”

One song of this remind some of Hazey Jane II by Nick Drake, which might be simply down to the guitar tuning

and yet I my heart I knew that the artist themselves would not slow down the train of increasingly ludicrous "influences"

"I love John Prine and Iris Dement"

"Your new country rock album reminds me of Smashing Pumpkins"

The run from Little Things - Blurred View isn’t country/americana influenced at all though. It’s very decidedly a 90’s alt rock vibe in those tracks.

Ok maybe “little things” could be. But whatever country rock albums you’re listening to that sound like “flower of blood” I’d love to listen to.

I mean if we’re gonna spin this thing all the way out… the Pumpkins covered “Landslide,” so…

Iirc Buck Meek lists Sonic Youth and My Bloody Valentine on his influences, so there’s that.

One of my (and Lenker and Meek’s) favorite songs on the new record, “Jenni,” sounds like Hum’s 1995 alt-rock hit “Stars,” had it been recorded in a teenager’s humid, imploding bedroom.

But that image is perhaps even less weird and florid than the manner in which the song was actually recorded. “We hung the guitar from the rafters of a barn, from this 30-foot ceiling on a rope,” Meek explains to me. Around it, Stonehengelike, they arranged a circle of amplifiers. “[It’s] an idea I kind of stole from [Sonic Youth guitarist] Lee Ranaldo, who has an ambient set with that setup, a circle of amps.”

https://www.theringer.com/music/2019/4/30/18523793/big-thief-adrianne-lenker-ufof-capacity-band

Ah yes, country rock legends Hum and Sonic Youth.

this sucks and isn't fun

Ok. I’ll go back to listening to my favorite country song of the year so far: “flower of blood”.

I’m so glad that good bands are less fussed about genre than some of their fans are. One of the amazing things about this album is that they draw from such a wide range of influences & yet it still sounds like a cohesive thing.

The Blonde Redhead mention above — that was actually one of my first reference points when I first got into U.F.O.F. I think it was mostly her vocals and the way they sat in the mix. As I listened more and felt their folk roots more that association faded but I can still hear it.