Big Thief - Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe In You

str8 fire beautiful beef alfred

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown)

I didn't get that compliment on my last date.

“Are you sure the noodle is ready, Alfred?”

Ahem

Anyhow, so John Prine, Will Oldham, and Radiohead walk into a Basement Tapes…

Yeah that's a good combo. Maybe throw Neil Young in there. I love the influences it calls to mind, there are so many of them but also they are always coherently their own thing.

I loved that alternative tunings video. One thing that struck me about Get Back was just the sheer musicality of the Beatles, how fluid and fluent they were with their craft. Big Thief feels very much like that, their musical dexterity lets them play with a lot of things.

i have to say, re: "Spud Infinity" ... i wish she'd cut two beats off all those taaaaaakes, ditch the last 75 seconds (from the drums on) and end up with a perfectly fine 4-minute song.

‘flower of blood’ and ‘blurred view’ are my favs so far

Something really satisfying about that part in Sparrow where Adrianne ends 5 consecutive lines with “apple”.

Second go round and this is really starting to shine through. I'm so glad I held off really giving any of the teaser tracks a listen beyond like one play as they work better in context. I'm also quite content absorbing the album side by side in whatever order is good. I don't come to BT for jolly larks, but I'm genuinely loving side three and especially Red Moon. So much fun

Yeah "red moon" and "blue lightning" (and "spud infinity" !) have a country feel good vibe that is so satisfying on a sunny winter day.

btw I just booked tickets for their Paris gig in June : exciting !

Sam: (...)I think my process with overdubbing by myself is trying to make it sound like a band(...). If I don’t feel like a kid when it’s happening and if I don’t feel a little manic and dancing around like an absolute dweeb, then I’m like, this is done.
James: (...)I have a similar thing, which I try and impart on people when they’re doing an overdub. It’s like, this should be really exciting. Even though it’s just a tambo, this performance is important. It kills me when I see someone punching the clock on a tambo take because it’s like, dude pretend you’re in the room with this band.

Sam: You should be giving yourself the night sweats.

James: Totally. You feel it in the music when people take these little overdubs as if they’re nothing. You’re going to really hear this thing, it has to be more exciting than just in time.

these guys are such romantics & it's pretty wonderful & also I find it very moving how much people are responding to this romantic mood, but I gotta say: if you get lucky enough to work with some of the heavy-hitter session overdub people, people who I guarantee have played notes & figures that take people's breath away daily on timeless sides known to everybody -- speaking from experience here, I've had the good fortune to have at least three such dudes on my sessions -- and these guys will not hesitate to knock out an utterly devastating take with their right hand while holding a sandwich in their left. I personally am on the "treat every take like it was a moment of sublime importance" train but I've often considered that an indictment of my own musicianship because the best musicians I've ever worked with, while they absolutely take visible pleasure in playing and never seem to get tired of it, are kind of the opposite of what BT are talking about here

i don't know, there are views among guitarheads that it's better to "git gud" at barre chords rather than resort to a shameful capo. I saw one quora thread where this guy was bragging about playing guitar since the 60s and never once using a capo. because that's how good he was at barre chords. i thought about signing up for quora to upvote him because his authority was undeniable

I recall Isbell boasting that his most recent album was recorded entirely without capos. The alternate tuning with a capo *and* barre chords, though, that's basically been the Keith Richards model since "Let It Bleed." If I were a guitar player kid starting in the '70s that would have driven me nuts, being unable to figure out what he was doing, which is super-simple but *only* if you know he's in a tuning, with a capo. I like how the Big Thief person doesn't seem that precious or mysterious about it.

Yeah, the "classic" Keith Richards parts are SO simple with that specific tuning/capo. That's barely guitar playing ! ;)

Congrats you just managed to be rockist against Keith Richards, that is high level shit

keith richards figured out that open guitar strings sound better than fretted strings and tuned his guitar accordingly. the best thing about capos is it allows more open-style voicings without having to tune and re-tune your strings after every song

Eheh

It's amazing how many songs Keith wrote in open G, with and without a capo, with essentially the same chord shape. Genius/hero.

keith richards figured out that open guitar strings sound better than fretted strings

better -for his purposes-, there is no better/worse on this kinda thing except for specific applications

All the capo shaming examples sound like they come from a very narrow standard tuning mindset. Capo, and partial capo even, unlock weird chords and new sounds on all sorts of wacky tunings.

what kind of dickhead would shame someone for using a capo

capos and alt tunings are the best guitar hack, if you can even call it that

I have seen many professional musicians whomst I love and respect playing with capos, hence all capo-bashing seems silly to me. Whatever it takes to get the sounds you want.

I took a few lessons with Peter Lang and he started our first lesson by talking about how open tunings were superior to standard, the thought being that the fewer fingers you have on the neck the more naturally resonant the guitar is. It was his contention that standard tuning was only developed due to the demands of performance, allowing show band guitarists to play in a variety of keys with singers at the expense of tone and more intuitive, easier ways of playing

capos just transpose the key they don't change what notes you have to finger/play

i don't really understand how they make it easier is it just because the strings become closer to the board?

Short history of standard tuning: https://www.fender.com/articles/tech-talk/standard-tuning-how-eadgbe-came-to-be

It quotes Richard Lloyd: "Even though the cello is a larger instrument than the violin, it is played with the neck vertically, which allows the hand to have a little bit easier time reaching for notes. With the guitar sitting in the lap and the neck diagonal to the player, the bend in the wrist starts to make it more difficult to spread out the fingers. So our next best choice for tuning any larger scaled multi-stringed instrument is going to be to tune in fourths, which are a little closer together. On a guitar, a person with a normal-sized hand can reasonably be expected to sound the major third with the pinkie finger while holding down the tonic with the index finger. So it makes sense that the next string should be the fourth.”

I have heard people knock open tunings as lazy but capos? Really? I have always thought of a capo as just reducing the number of frets, and I believe they make guitars in a couple different configurations suggesting it's not a sacrosanct count.

As a total amateur three-chord acoustic strummer, I sometimes use a capo for two reasons: Most commonly to move a song into a key that's easier for me or my wife to sing, and also sometimes so I can play with chord fingering that's easier for me. (e.g., a transposition to play a Bm chord with Em fingering.)

better -for his purposes-, there is no better/worse on this kinda thing except for specific applications

― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, February 17, 2022 9:48 AM (fifty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i agree that each songwriter/guitarist has techniques better suited to the sound and vibe they're going for. but i agree with ums (well, peter lang) upthread: the fewer fingers you have on the neck the more naturally resonant the guitar is.

I haven't played standard tuning (on my guitar) in probably 10 years. It just sounds so magical in more open or unconventional tunings.

i'm in the same capo-boat at tipsy. alt tunings are mostly mysterious to me and i wish i could crack them. although if i had to choose, i would prioritize figuring out how to pick with all my fingers!

the lenker alt tuning video up there was wonderful, yes, thank you for posting, Indexed

Yeah very satisfying even if you know nothing about guitars

The fun thing about them is that you can just play with hand shapes to find out what sounds good... until someone maybe wants to accompany you and you have no fucking clue what you're playing. It's just "uh, this shape then this one, then I move it up here a few frets" (this is why I've driven away any enthusiasm anyone's ever had to jam with me... as rare as that is in the first place)

"Even though the cello is a larger instrument than the violin, it is played with the neck vertically, which allows the hand to have a little bit easier time reaching for notes.

I believe Robert Fripp's fabled New Standard Tuning is if not the same then close to the same as cello tuning (all fifths?). Though of course his entire approach is pretty unique.

I've never heard anyone badmouth a capo before, tbh. At the very least it can instantly change the *sound* of your guitar, which is cool. Alt tunings are cool, too, but tuning into alt tunings can be a pain in the ass (which I believe is one reason given for why Joni Mitchell stopped touring; iirc it may have even played a part in Nick Drake's depression!).

I cannot believe that Joni Mitchell did not have the resources to have multiple guitars tuned to different alternate tunings and a guitar tech to hand them to her as needed for the next song

I do the simple Neil young move where I drop the high E to D. Just that one little change can make standard chords sound cool and droney

And on the pro level you'd want a separate guitar set up and intonated for each tuning (esp open C which is so slack)

I do the simple Neil young move where I drop the high E to D. Just that one little change can make standard chords sound cool and droney

Drop D is fairly common in pop music, much more so than full on open tunings. "Everlong," "Dear Prudence," "Harvest Moon," "Heart Shaped Box" are a few I've learned that use Drop D.

Everyone from Papa Roach to Fleetwood Mac, I guess...

https://killerguitarrigs.com/best-songs-in-drop-d-tuning/

lenker's suggestion of starting new guitar players with open tunings is such a good idea

i always assume anyone playing a slide is in an open tuning

Drop D is fairly common in pop music, much more so than full on open tunings. "Everlong," "Dear Prudence," "Harvest Moon," "Heart Shaped Box" are a few I've learned that use Drop D.

― Indexed, Thursday, February 17, 2022 11:48 AM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

also dozens upon dozens of grunge and metal songs

i'm talking the high string

If I may go back to "Symbol" for a moment, there is so much going on with this song! The alternate tuning - "Low C", which I personally had never seen and she doesn't even talk to in that video. The picking pattern that was also new to me; not sure if this is her creation or not -- the thumb is used on eighth notes 1,2,4,5,and 7. The syncopation in the verse's vocal melody -- which makes it a bitch to sing and play simultaneously, at least for me.

Then there's the internal rhyming in these lyrics, which looks more like rap:

Fly make flea, make haste, make waste, eight makes infinity
Times I've tried to make breaks, embrace for the enemy
Meet my face to face, time try to find the diamond
Counting time as time counts me, the river to the island

Fly/ti/my/ti/try/fi/di/is

haste/waste/brace/face

make/eight/brake

Low C is kind of a variation on DADGAD:

CGDGAD

that's more UK/celtic folky

open C (also the "Sun Tuning") which I referred to upthread is similar:

CGCGCE

that's like basically ground zero of american primitive/post-john fahey stuff, an excellent tuning to play around with, almost impossible not to sound good in that tuning

though in both you have to tune the low E past drop D to a low C, which as I said can be a challenge for some guitars if there's not enough string tension and also kind of hard to intonate properly, not that it's ever stopped me

Congrats you just managed to be rockist against Keith Richards, that is high level shit

i had a hearty lol at this

this is very classically "open c" sounding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep3YHeYP1AM

I cannot believe that Joni Mitchell did not have the resources to have multiple guitars tuned to different alternate tunings and a guitar tech to hand them to her as needed for the next song

I saw a claim that she has written for at least 50 guitar tunings. Found this:

The new influence at work is an electric guitar that Mitchell’s old friend Fred Walecki built for her to alleviate her ongoing frustrations with using alternate tunings--one of the reasons why she stopped touring in 1983 and was on the verge of quitting the stage permanently in the spring of ’95. Walecki, of Westwood Music in Los Angeles, designed the Stratocaster-style guitar to work with the Roland VG-8--the Virtual Guitar--a very sophisticated processor capable of electronically creating her tunings. While the strings physically stay in standard tuning, the VG-8 tweaks the pickup signals so that they come out of the speakers in an altered tuning. This means that Mitchell can use one guitar on stage, with an off-stage tech punching in the preprogrammed tuning for each song.

"This new guitar that I’m working with eliminated a certain amount of problems that I had with the acoustic guitar," Mitchell explained. "Problems isn’t even the right word; maddening frustrations is more accurate. The guitar is intended to be played in standard tuning; the neck is calibrated and everything. Twiddling it around isn’t good for the instrument, generally speaking. It’s not good for the neck; it unsettles the intonation. I have very good pitch, so if I’m never quite in tune, that’s frustrating." Over the years, Mitchell has learned to slightly bend the strings to compensate for the intonation error, but that effort is still often defeated by the extreme slackness of her tunings. "In some of those tunings I’ve got an A on the bottom or a Bb, and it’s banging against the string next to it and kicking the thing out of tune as I play, no matter how carefully I tweak it." The VG-8 sidesteps all these problems: as long as the strings are accurately in standard tuning, she can play all over the neck in the virtual alternate tunings and sound in tune.