Why is Lou Reed so often referred to as the Godfather of Punk?

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Now that I think of it, I have heard Steve Jones say several times on his radio show that he was inspired to be a musician when he saw the New York Dolls and that the way he learned to play guitar was by playing along to the first Stooges record and the two Dolls records, playing them over and over again. He has also said that his favorite guitar player is Mick Ronson, and, as everybody knows, a lot of the Pistols equipment was stuff Steve stole from the Spiders From Mars, especially after "the last show they ever did." After Johnny Ramone passed away, Jonesy's Jukebox replayed an interview with Johnny and Steve asked him if he ever went to see the Dolls and Johnny said, "Oh yeah, I went every time. I used to see Johnny and Jerry around town and they looked so cool. Then I heard they were in a band, but Tommy Ramone told me 'Yeah, but they're no good.' But I went anyway, because how could they be bad if they looked so cool."

Anyway, I don't know how this exactly answers the original question, I'm just trying to say that the canonical punk lineage isn't just an invention, although it was probably a simplification. In this version of the story Lou enters through the sidedoor of the Bowie connection and through John Cale producing the Stooges album. I'm still trying to think how the Lou/Jonathan Richman thing fits in here. Maybe Lou is actually the Godfather of New Wave, through the Modern Lovers alumni.

Indie Rock's roots = Punk Rock.

Why is everyone hung up on the notion that "Punk" has to be fast and stupid?

but if Television, Suicide, Patti Smith, and even the Dolls are punk you're crazy to slight him.

Well then you're simply just wrong. Those bands were Punks back when Joe Strummer was still calling himself "Woody".

Even if you were to count Television and suicide as punk rock, it seems you'd still have to recognize that they represent a wing that's somewhat removed from the mainstream or majority of what is generally considered punk. Even in Patti, I hear more Stones, Doors, and Stooges than VU FWIW.

It's not that they represent a "wing," it's that they PRE-DATE that which "is generally considered punk". It wasn't until the rise of BRITISH Punk Rock (i.e. after New York Punk Rock) that the parameters started being inforced. New York Punk was everything from the buzzsaw assault of the Ramones through the almost-proggy guitar noodling of Television (i.e. a wider umbrella of a term, rather than a strict stipulation-ridden code).

And I HATE Patti Smith.

All songs by British bands, proving that punk would never have been "punk" without the Limeys.

"Rock and Roll Animal" (from 1974) is routinely cited as a punk influence, but that's more due to the image overhaul that Lou Reed went through at the time, going from a relatively normal looking person to an emaciated freak seemingly overnight. At this point, he didn't play guitar when performing live either -- I think he was going through an Iggy worship phase and wanted to strut around the stage instead of burden himself with an instrument.

exactly ... the only way it could've been even more masturbatory would be if lou had hired rick wakeman to play synth.

He was blown out of his mind on more amphetamines than is humanly possible to ingest. I don't think Iggy had anything to do with it.

The Doors as punk: If they were so punk, hows come they let the label force them to change the lyric to “Mother, I want to murphhhharghhhhh you!”?

Punk’s roots also have a lot to do with rock-a-billy, too, methinks.

"Scientists today dug up the remains of musician Lou Reed and viewed some molecules under a megasupermicroscope. What they found were traces of a substance quite remarkably rare in the universe: punk. Physicists are mystified by this new development in the theory of the universe, however all the mathematical ramifications have not been investigated as yet."

That said, the actual playing on Rock'n'Roll Animal is steeped in the very sort've masturbatory excess that Punk Rock was supposedly railing against in the first place, so go know.

All the way down to the string section, laser show and giant UFO landing on stage.

Anyway, Pere Ubu was the mother of punk rock.
And the Electric Eels were the crazy uncle.

Nancy was always having to say that about Sid, too.

funny, most of the conversations I've had like that have been with English guys. "Hey, so you're into music...what do ya like then?"
"Oh, everything, been listenin' to this great tape of those Cleveland bands late '70s, y'know like 'Jaguar Ride' and that stuff."
"So you think that's punk do you?"
"Yeah I guess it is."
"Well it's not--LOU REED is the godfather of punk, there would be no punk rock without that first bloody Velvets album!"
"Yeah, they were punk rock with a viola player, I guess so."
"What do you mean you guess so! Lou Reed started the whole thing...unless you think it was the Ramones..."
"Well, yeah, maybe it was the Ramones."
"Lou was the first to sing about how tough it is in the streets! And drugs. The Ramones were wankers."
"I like the Chocolate Watch Band, and bubblegum music, a lot of that is about as stupid as the best punk. Those Sun Records guys were pretty much punks even though they were rednecks...I really like Pat Hare, 'I'm Gonna Murder My Baby,' which is like, 1905 or something, early..."
"No, no, as a DEFINED AESTHETIC punk starts in 1966 and the Velvets, those earlier performers didn't have the right attitude at all, and you can't be a punk and be from Memphis."
"Have you not read interviews with Lou Reed? You need to. "
"I've read 'em. Lou did it all--rock, art rock, Delmore Schwartz, Brinsley Schwartz, I even think Rick Wakeman was on one of his albums, and he went '70s on 'Rock and Roll Animal,' that long intro thing to 'Sweet Jane' is pretty much like something Yes would've done except fewer chords, I like that OK."
(Followed by twenty minutes of useless and thinly-veiled-hostile conversation in which I vainly try to just make a joke out of the whole thing, bringing in the Sir Douglas Quintet as Englishmen, the contribution of Graham Gouldman to the Ohio Express, Darby Crash and speaking in tongues, etc.) Then I end up having to buy the last round because everyone's so sick of the whole thing, and go home and listen to bossa nova records.

Or something.

Proof that it's punk.

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I'm enjoying the non-eddie on the thread, including some of the cracks wise on the meaning of the word "godfather" from Dadaismus and snappyDancer, but yeah, that was another great post from eddie hurt.