RIP Kanye West

the Abstract Mindstate album he produced last year that no one paid attention to was the best work he's done in years

Daytona was excellent. Cover was pretty tasteless - wouldn’t surprise me if that was Kanye’s idea.

Jfc that note about Kid Cudi. What a fucking baby

xpost yeah forgot Daytona that was good

Jfc that note about Kid Cudi. What a fucking baby

― frogbs, Saturday, February 12, 2022 5:07 PM

his predilection for picking on young white teenage women is a problem. it's uncomfortable and weird.

Do the universe a favor (please) and don't click links about this clown and whatever nonsense is supposedly happening at present.

The more you click, the more you authorize/urge outlets to keep writing about him.

not until Billie Eilish apologizes to him

xp it probably encourages Kanye to continue being a clown. Awhile back (I think 2016?) he had what seemed like a Twitter meltdown and people were wondering if he was really having a breakdown. But more than few people were reluctant to believe that, especially coming from a monstrously narcissistic publicity whore, and indeed Kanye knew exactly what he was doing.

It's no different than Trump or all the like minded nuts. So...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlKao_Pox5A

I hate this because there was a time where anti-Kanye sentiment was actually ridiculous and over the top and the "Dubya doesn't care about Black people" was an all-time great moment.

And I loved him through WTT. but this is just fucking depressing

Yes it was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJUNTcOGeSw

I didn't like WTT. The title alone seemed to betray the only thing that was on their mind. I almost wanted to blame Jay-Z who's far more of a marketing entrepreneur than an artist.

I always loved Chuck D's response, which shamed both Jay-Z and Kanye over their obnoxious video to make a big charity donation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=161ZRrJZESA

"This is a polite respect call to the troops , to continue to inspire but reflect the people better. OTIS Redding was a humble country man from Macon Georgia who bought a jet to work in, not flash. He perished in that plane. Heres to hoping that the J & K supergroup can elevate the masses and try a little bit more to reflect OTIS heart rather than swag, because they're too good to be less."

tbf Kanye was an eminently dislikable person even when he was good

He was always a mixed bag but there were a lot more redeeming qualities in his early career

I always loved Trevor Noah's tweet too.

.@TrevorNoah: "Kendrick is what Kanye would have been if the Kardashians didn't get him" https://t.co/gEfQ8o1zTP pic.twitter.com/JUtv4yHHvD

— The Hollywood Reporter (@THR) February 16, 2016

Jfc that note about Kid Cudi. What a fucking baby

― frogbs, Sunday, February 13, 2022 12:07 PM (four hours ago)

ctrl+f=0

I almost wanted to blame Jay-Z who's far more of a marketing entrepreneur than an artist.

I'm sorry but this is totally bullshit, Jay's initial run of albums are all absolutely classic and super influential

I know they're massively popular, but I've never been a Jay-Z fan.

Actually, I liked "Empire State of Mind" and I like a lot of stuff where he pops in for a cameo. But I don't play his albums again.

that trevor noah tweet is dogshit

The real dogshit is self-absorbed reality TV culture as personified by the Kardashians' show.

Actually, I liked "Empire State of Mind" and I like a lot of stuff where he pops in for a cameo. But I don't play his albums again.

are you joking?? that's his most dogshit song . I'm taking Reasonable Doubt, In My Lifetime Vol 1 & 2, Streets is Watching, Blueprint. I will never in my life forget seeing the Dead Presidents video on BET (the original single version not the one on Reasonable Doubt), I got goosebumps, was so eerie and he was flowing like no one ever had. my god, like Brooklyn's Finest? Coming of Age? like he spit nothing but classics for a decade

that's just an ahistorical, wrongheaded opinion. period.

maybe you don't like hip hop, which is fine

So it's okay not to love Jay-Z as long as I don't like hip-hop. Makes sense.

In all seriousness, on a technical level, he's impressive, but even when the substance is there (especially before it became more and more about name-checking and marketing god knows what), it didn't sound like a great record. That's one reason why WTT was especially disappointing to me - having Kanye (presumably at his peak) producing an entire album for/with Jay-Z seemed to be good reason to be optimistic.

Have you even heard the actual stuff, before the Black Album? Cuz you keep bringing up the most basic shit

How about we pause for a second and not escalate this into a fight over the internet? Is that cool?

At minimum, in that last post I was at least agreeing with you that the "basic shit" was more of a problem later.

kendrick and 00s kanye are not even remotely stylistically or thematically similar, trevor noah is a hack

Reasonable Doubt and Life and Times of S. Carter are masterpieces.

Lol yeah that Kendrick Lamar / Kanye tweet is a terrible comparison

blaming the kardashians for what kanye became also absolves a lot of his own desires and motivations for linking up with kim and the clan in the first place. the kardashians didn’t “get to him,” he sought them out

He was an idiot way before the Kardashians too.

hey birdistheword - sorry I got heated and acted like a jerk

Most of these are the sort of narcissistic tirades he’s known for nowadays and they all happened before the Kardashians (maybe the last one not, they started dating early 2010’s iirc but I’m not researching the specific date)

https://theweek.com/articles/482620/12-kanye-west-outbursts-timeline?amp

The catalogue of idiocy goes way, way back. There were warning signs but I (speaking for myself) wanted to believe the man was essentially better than that.

Specifically: whatever he said about reading being stupid struck (and still strikes) me as dunderheaded. Regardless of rather of not that is said with personal sincerity, why say it, especially when you’re aware of how many people - and how many other African Americans, in particular - look up to you?

Come on you could tell on College Dropout that he was a self absorbed prick it’s just that the music was more fun

You could tell, yes - and there was stuff on that record that was super gross even back then.

But in 2004, he didn't have the power and influence on mass culture he has today, and the grossness was not out of line with a lot of what was happening in the genre. Yes, frogbs, it was fun and it was new. And we were younger.

Sorry if I'm coming across as antagonistic here. The continued popularity and veneration of this guy is something I think about too much, so I have strong feelings and opinions. But will pull back and just follow the thread.

Raymond, please keep posting.

jay has a couple classic albums and a good amount of classic songs, but he's been coasting on mediocrity for nearly two decades.

bird otm re: clownye's "ţřųmpness" - he definitely taught kanye everything he knows. i had to stop looking at stuff about this latest episode because it's starting to feel like a rickroll or something.

Kanye's mother dying kind of accelerated his spiral.

Granted he wasn't a saint prior but that tragedy really fucked him up. She was only 58

@upper mississippi sh@kedown, thanks man. FWIW, I totally get that my lack of enthusiasm for Jay-Z's entire body of work is a minority opinion. Beyond his massive popularity, he's got his share of critical support and IIRC has at least two comfortable spots in the upper echelons of Rolling Stone's last album poll. I don't want to get in any heated arguments about Jay-Z, but I'll listen to anyone making the case for him. It would be great to hear exactly what his biggest supporters hear in his best work and be tremendously grateful for that - I hope that happens someday.

I thought Noah's joke was hilarious, but a one-liner isn't going to hold up as a complete, much less nuanced, argument.

I feel like the complaints I personally heard about Kanye really started with Late Registration and ballooned even before Graduation came out - I remember right before that album came out in 2007 I was getting pushback from friends who weren't interested in seeing him because of all the baggage he had. My feeling then was that it hadn't compromised his music too much, that it was actually interesting and entertaining to see a gifted but egotistical jackass struggle with those lesser elements about himself. He also felt like a guy who was struggling to engage with the world despite himself.

I do agree with the theory that Kanye losing his mother was probably the beginning of the end, there's no denying how devastating that was. In retrospect, it did lead to a remarkable stage in his career. I still remember the shock of seeing him break down on the following tour whenever he tried to do "Hey Mama" or something in tribute to her. (I actually braced for the same thing to happen when he paid tribute at the Grammy's, but he had it together by then.) Then he had that break-up and 808's and it was shocking to see the guy in pieces like that. IIRC he'd go on talk shows looking depressed, with shades and less grooming...kind of like Joaquin Phoenix's fake breakdown but this seemed for real. That album's only gotten better with age because when are we ever going to see him that exposed and vulnerable again?

(to clarify, I meant 808's remains compelling in terms of the humility and perseverance through inner struggles, not for the sheer voyeurism)

bird, have you seen/heard jay’s mtv unplugged? that could be a way in

I definitely didn't give it a good listen - I rarely listen to anyone's Unplugged appearances. Reading it over, just the Roots alone sounds interesting so will give it a try.

you should just give Reasonable Doubt two or three focused playthroughs and if that doesn't get you, nothing else will.

co-sign on unplugged. one of his career highlights.

reasonable doubt easily one of the most classic of the mid-90s nyc classics.

I'm making short term goals, when the weather folds
Just put away the leathers and put ice on the gold
Chilly with enough bail money to free a big Willy
High stakes, I got more at stake than Philly
Shopping sprees, cop in three, deuce fever IS's fully loaded, ah yes

Bouncing in the Lex Luger, tires smoke like Buddha
50 G's to the crap shooter, n****s can't fade me
Chrome socks beaming, through my peripheral I see ya scheming
Stop dreamin', I leave ya body steaming
N*****s is fiending, what's the meaning
I'm leaning on any n*****s intervening with the sound of my money machinin'

My cup runneth over with hundreds
I'm one of the best n*****s that done it
Six digits and running

I'm another who never got the whole Jay Z thing. Couple great tracks and some good lines but on the whole I just find him mediocre and lacking charisma.

It's ok to be RONG

Jay-Z is from the generation right after I stopped actively listening to hip-hop. He's never done it for me.

There have been a lot of individual Jay Z tracks I've enjoyed, some all on the same album, but no albums of his I take out on any sort of regular basis. That includes Reasonable Doubt, that includes The Blueprint, just not really my thing. I'd have to look at a calendar or something, but I don't think the rap I was listening to at the time included any of the heavy hitters, as far as I can remember. Though I do remember really enjoying Unplugged, which was fun.

The real work of art was all the drugs I did while painting this picture

HoF post, God bless you for this

the art market got to this point 30 years ago cf damien hurst. wealth and power as subject is pretty well-worn. i guess with it spiraling into greater insanity in the last few decades someone's going to rush in to make art out of the grotesquerie. new extremes but very predictable imo.

Ye could become distracted. On the visit to Home Depot to buy tools, he’d spent an age trying to learn who had lined up plant pots in an appealing way. A sales assistant shrugged. “Well, I want their number,” Ye said, according to Saxon. “That’s how I want my plants to look.” (They didn’t buy any tools.)

This is the kind of eccentricity I like in artists/celebrities, is it really too much to ask that they keep doing this, but don't also go pro-trump, antisemite, anti-vax, etc?

yeah there is tons here that is almost endearing if he weren’t a mentally ill fascist

like if I had unlimited money I’d to dumb stuff with it too but maybe in a slightly more normal way

i mean it's entirely relatable to me as someone who's gone into a store and admired an aesthetic setup, and when i try to achieve something similar at home it looks like the cat did it.

it looks like the cat did it

good descriptor of his output over the last 20 years

Watch the Yarn

best Bowie song

I yam what I yam

like if I had unlimited money I’d to dumb stuff with it too but maybe in a slightly more normal way

yeah i'd definitely be spending money in irrational ways, but it would still be basically understandable as "luxuries of a dumb guy". has there ever been a celebrity who has spent this kind of money in order to aggressively make their life materially worse? like if everything worked out with that house like Kanye wanted, right now he'd be shitting into a hole in the floor in a tiny concrete cell within a larger windowless concrete box, having spent $60m for the privilege. I know weirdo tech billionaires sometimes get way into ultra-ascetic lifestyles and sensory deprivation and stuff, but whatever urge Kanye was following seems like a pretty different thing from that

I guess Howard Hughes comes to mind? But even that still doesnt seem totally similar - with Kanye theres this weird lust for erasure, entombment. its fascinating.

If completed Kanye would have used his Ando hole for two weeks to make one track about how being famous feels like being put in solitary confinement and never set foot in it again.