she was performing it as early as 1966
...and she wrote it as a reply to "Sugar Mountain" (which gave this thread its title) before either had been recorded. I wonder if she saw a certain extra nostalgia in recording the song four years after it was written; I've read interviews where she has been dismissive of the lyrics compared to what she saw as more sophisticated later work.
― Halfway there but for you, Saturday, 8 January 2022 14:26 (two years ago) link
Joni OTM. Paul Simon also tends to dismiss early work as juvenilia. I love both artists inordinately but am not eager to hear "Circle Game" or "Dangling Conversation" again any time soon.
― nonsensei (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 8 January 2022 18:59 (two years ago) link
Paul Simon did that early on the sleeve notes of his "Songbook" album
― Mark G, Sunday, 9 January 2022 17:44 (two years ago) link
I see Richard Thompson has been mentioned upthread - excellent choice. Meet on the Ledge also fits, and was written when he was just 19. Interesting how a fair few artists mentioned in this thread are folk singers - maybe knoweldge of all those centuries-old songs put their own mortality in perspective.
― vexingvexillologist, Tuesday, 11 January 2022 18:10 (two years ago) link
Recently discovered this one on an Oldies show: "The Old Crowd" sung by the then-17 year-old Lesley Gore (not sure who wrote it)
[Intro]Sometimes I get to thinkin' 'bout days gone byAnd I start cryin' every timeWhat I wouldn't give if I could just reliveOne day with those old friends of mine[Verse 1]No one ever planned it, but every day at fourWe would get together at the corner candy storeWe would just ignore the sign, "No dancing allowed"Oh wo yeah, how I miss the old crowd[Verse 2]Sally was the funny one, Sue wore the hippest clothesEddie was the wise guy, was always one of thoseJohnny used to sing off-key, but boy he was loudOh woah yeah, how I miss the old crowd[Bridge]Well now, it is funny when high school are throughFriendships always come to an endEverybody tells you they'll keep in touch, yeahBut you don't see them again[Verse 3]Oh no, It's not that I'm unhappy; I know I still have youBut I still think about those good times we knewWe were so carefree, our hearts were on cloudOh woah yeah, I miss the old crowd[Outro]Oh, how I miss the old crowdYeah, how I miss the old crowd
[Verse 1]No one ever planned it, but every day at fourWe would get together at the corner candy storeWe would just ignore the sign, "No dancing allowed"Oh wo yeah, how I miss the old crowd
[Verse 2]Sally was the funny one, Sue wore the hippest clothesEddie was the wise guy, was always one of thoseJohnny used to sing off-key, but boy he was loudOh woah yeah, how I miss the old crowd
[Bridge]Well now, it is funny when high school are throughFriendships always come to an endEverybody tells you they'll keep in touch, yeahBut you don't see them again
[Verse 3]Oh no, It's not that I'm unhappy; I know I still have youBut I still think about those good times we knewWe were so carefree, our hearts were on cloudOh woah yeah, I miss the old crowd
[Outro]Oh, how I miss the old crowdYeah, how I miss the old crowd
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 19 February 2024 16:28 (three months ago) link
I'm 26 and would greatly enjoy more songs by youngsters about how their lives have been relatively, disappointingly static for about fifteen years or so
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Monday, 19 February 2024 16:29 (three months ago) link
Self-XP Wiki says "The Old Crowd" was written by Goffin/King! Which totally makes sense because it really feels like the musings of a married with children couple in their early 20s.
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 19 February 2024 16:36 (three months ago) link
The Carpenters were 26 and 23 when they released the super-nostalgic "Yesterday Once More"
― Josefa, Monday, 19 February 2024 16:42 (three months ago) link
"The Class of '57" by the Statler Bros. (Released in 1972)
Tommy's selling used carsNancy's fixing hairHarvey runs a grocery storeAnd Margaret doesn't careJerry drives a truck for SearsAnd Charlotte's on the makeAnd Paul sells life insuranceAnd part-time real estateHelen is a hostessFrank works at the millJenett teaches grade schoolAnd probably always willBob works for the cityAnd Jack's in lab researchAnd Peggy plays organ at the Presbyterian ChurchAnd the class of '57 had its dreamsWe all thought we'd change the world with our great works and deedsOr maybe we just thought the world would change to fit our needsThe class of '57 had its dreamsBetty runs a trailer parkJan sells TupperwareRandy's on an insane warAnd Mary's on welfareCharlie took a job with FordAnd Joe took Freddie's wifeCharlotte took a millionaireAnd Freddie took his lifeJohn is big in cattleRay is deep in debtWhere Mavis finally wound up is anybody's betLinda married SonnyBrenda married meAnd the class of all of us is just part of historyAnd the class of '57 had its dreamsBut living life, day and day, is never like it seemsThings get complicated when you get past eighteenBut the class of '57 had its dreamsOh, the class of '57 had its dreams
Jerry drives a truck for SearsAnd Charlotte's on the makeAnd Paul sells life insuranceAnd part-time real estate
Helen is a hostessFrank works at the millJenett teaches grade schoolAnd probably always will
Bob works for the cityAnd Jack's in lab researchAnd Peggy plays organ at the Presbyterian Church
And the class of '57 had its dreamsWe all thought we'd change the world with our great works and deedsOr maybe we just thought the world would change to fit our needsThe class of '57 had its dreams
Betty runs a trailer parkJan sells TupperwareRandy's on an insane warAnd Mary's on welfare
Charlie took a job with FordAnd Joe took Freddie's wifeCharlotte took a millionaireAnd Freddie took his life
John is big in cattleRay is deep in debtWhere Mavis finally wound up is anybody's bet
Linda married SonnyBrenda married meAnd the class of all of us is just part of history
And the class of '57 had its dreamsBut living life, day and day, is never like it seemsThings get complicated when you get past eighteenBut the class of '57 had its dreams
Oh, the class of '57 had its dreams
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 19 February 2024 16:54 (three months ago) link
I'd say the Carpenters one is the American Graffiti-type situation in which in 1973 America, ten years ago seemed liked ages ago.
― Josefa, Monday, 19 February 2024 17:10 (three months ago) link
"In My Life" (John Lennon, 25...not a personal favourite, but obviously it fits)
there are a lot of 80s Madness songs that have this melancholy ruminative focus on childhood memories from the perspective of early-mid 20 somethings, but possibly this is a distinct thing from the old before your time type songs, ruminating on your childhood is maybe a typical early 20 something thing to do?
Madness were only young when they started having hits, late teens to early 20s, only a few years older than the kids buying their records, and this was obviously part of their appeal, that they were peers of their young fans, but even from the start there's this sense of people looking back at the youth they've just left behind, even if only recently
Their last album before they broke up (Mad Not Mad from 1985) has lots of lyrics about ageing and weariness, I think that's to do with the band coming to an end and tiredness of being on the record/promote/tour carousel non stop for several years, which is maybe why a lot of young pop stars end up writing these kind of songs.
― soref, Monday, 19 February 2024 17:23 (three months ago) link
Mood-wise, not even remotely the same thing, but Ian MacKaye was 23 when Minor Threat put out "Salad Days" (their last single, I think). In his world, 23 actually was old.
― clemenza, Monday, 19 February 2024 18:05 (three months ago) link
I think people in their mid-20s are often more nostalgic for childhood/teen years than older folks
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 19 February 2024 18:11 (three months ago) link
Miley Cyrus had a god awful single last year called Used To Be Young. She was 30 at the time on release. Absolute pensioner.
― a hoy hoy, Monday, 19 February 2024 18:18 (three months ago) link
I don't know if this counts but I think Leonard Cohen wrote "Tonight Will Be Fine" (my favorite Leonard Cohen song) in about 1968. When he was maybe 32 or 34?
It begins "sometimes I find I get to thinking of the past."
― fleetwood macrame (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 19 February 2024 18:31 (three months ago) link
in 1973 America, ten years ago seemed liked ages ago
The Beach Boys reminisced about the days of rock and roll in "Do You Remember", released in 1964!
― Kim Kimberly, Monday, 19 February 2024 18:35 (three months ago) link
Ray Davies had this market cornered.― Are You Still in Love With Me, Klas-Göran? (Tom D.), Monday, 27 September 2021 15:16 (two years ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Are You Still in Love With Me, Klas-Göran? (Tom D.), Monday, 27 September 2021 15:16 (two years ago) bookmarkflaglink
Bears repeating. Just one example, "Where Have All the Good Times Gone" was written when he was 21.
― The British Boy of Film Classification (Tom D.), Monday, 19 February 2024 18:41 (three months ago) link
As the man himself said:
"We'd been rehearsing 'Where Have All the Good Times Gone' and our tour manager at the time, who was a lot older than us, said, 'That's a song a 40-year-old would write'."
― The British Boy of Film Classification (Tom D.), Monday, 19 February 2024 18:42 (three months ago) link
Apparently, once a single left the charts it was impossible to find it. So when the Oldies But Goodies LPs came out in the early 1960s they were recapturing something that had been very ephemeral, if only two or three years old. Pop culture moved so fast in part because stuff disappeared from radio and theaters and shops quickly. No matter how poptimist we’d like to be I don’t think we can internalize that sentimentalism. Play it again Sam, etc.
― bendy, Monday, 19 February 2024 18:47 (three months ago) link
True story: On New Year's Eve of maybe 1990 I was on the roof of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts with some friends.
Someone started singing "Still Crazy After All These Years." Most of us were twenty or so.
The oldest person among us (who may have been, yikes, and 22) said to stop it, because "all these years" should be reserved for older persons with longer shared histories.
Okay, point taken, but Paul Simon was probably or 32 when he wrote that line
― fleetwood macrame (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 19 February 2024 18:48 (three months ago) link
Yeah, but I bet those people are a lot crazier today
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 19 February 2024 18:51 (three months ago) link
idk y'all, everyone has a past. does a 30 year old former child star get to feel old? i'd say yeah, myself.
absolute king of the young old men has to be orson welles though, right? not a song per se, but him doing "hearts of age" at 19...
i read a lot of the songs upthread about being "old" as just depression. or trauma. like, having a friend die, that'll make you feel old.
i think sometimes about dylan's "so much older than" and mitchell's "both sides now" - there aren't in fact two sides, but it's easy for me to fall into thinking that way.
this whole thing kinda reminds me of those Twitter threads of people in the 50's and 60's who looked like old men in their early thirties, people just seemed to age faster back then― frogbs
― frogbs
i got a picture of me at age 22 where i look twice that age. i look like i'm about to yell at some kids to tell them to get off my lawn. then i got a picture of me actually _at_ about twice that age, and i look, god, i look at least 60 in that one.
i got no idea how old i look now. i got no idea how old i _am_ now. i mean, i can give you a number. i can give you a couple of numbers. i went to a friend's birthday party a couple months ago. she was turning five. she's looking forward to retiring - she's eligible this year.
Most all of the songs I named date to the mid-late '60s; I'm guessing there was just so much happening so fast, a lot of these people felt prematurely old.― clemenza
― clemenza
that's the thing, right? it gets graded on a curve. if i hang out with people my age, they don't see me as old, but mostly i don't hang out with people my age. the people i hang out with are younger than me _and getting younger_. transfem HRT will knock ten years off your age over the course of two years or so. do things change fast around me? fuck yes, things change fast. when it comes to transition, two years is a generation. i'm more than four years in and i've started aging forward again. candy darling was 29 when she died, "bored by everything. You might say bored to death." how old does she look in that famous picture?
― Kate (rushomancy), Monday, 19 February 2024 21:34 (three months ago) link
I did not know the song "Class of '57" but I am picturing Charlotte as Charlotte from Sex and the City.
Sort of reminds me of my favorite Dylan line, "some are mathematicians, some are carpenters' wives," though I think it works better as a single line than as an entire song.
― Lily Dale, Monday, 19 February 2024 23:27 (three months ago) link
Probably why the Statlers haven’t won a Nobel
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 19 February 2024 23:37 (three months ago) link
Marmalade’s “Reflections Of My Life” seems to fit, though like “Heart of Gold” and several other examples, it definitely feels like it swings between old man POV (“all my sorrows/sad tomorrows/take me back/to my old home”) and young man perspective (all the “changing” and “rearranging” the singer is doing of his life). It actually has two singers, with one sounding older than the other. Anyway, neither band member who wrote it was older than 25 at the time.
― gjoon1, Monday, 19 February 2024 23:54 (three months ago) link
the class of what, '09? did the class of '09 have dreams? come to think of it '09 was my 15 year reunion.
i don't know. i don't think i can look at '94 and see a bunch of young people who had big dreams. i mean i had 'em. they were pissant dreams, though.
― Kate (rushomancy), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 00:11 (three months ago) link
I wonder if any of the class of 57 had dreams of being Country Music artists, cause that seemed to work out for a few of them
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 00:56 (three months ago) link
Libba Cotten - "Freight Train" age 11
When I'm dead and in my graveNo more good times here I cravePlace the stones at my head and feetAnd tell them all I've gone to sleep
When I die, Lord bury me deepDown at the end of old Chestnut StreetSo I can hear old Number NineAs she comes rolling by
― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 04:19 (three months ago) link
Great revive…I think people in their mid-20s are often more nostalgic for childhood/teen years than older folksR.E.M.’s “Catapult” to thread
― Sony's Sports Walkman Universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 04:32 (three months ago) link
some are mathematicians, some are carpenters' wivesWhen I first heard Tangled up in Blue around age 16 it struck me as very much what it might feel like to look back at your life at 35, and by 35 I’d realized it was pretty accurate. A song about aging that is pitched very precisely! It captures a twisting path of memories where you can only see so far back and so far ahead.
― bendy, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 04:42 (three months ago) link
Confession: For at least 30 years, I have harbored a secret curiosity about how many mathematicians are also carpenter's wives.
Like, it's perfectly plausible to be a mathematician who happens to be married to a carpenter. Even if one or the other are DIY hobbyists, as opposed to professional practitioners. I would be totally cool with an amateur mathematician married to a professional carpenter, or vice versa.
― fleetwood macrame (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 05:09 (three months ago) link
Many are confused about how such a life path got started.
― bbq, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 09:02 (three months ago) link
they're an illusion anyway
― corrs unplugged, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 09:38 (three months ago) link
"I think people in their mid-20s are often more nostalgic for childhood/teen years than older folks"
interesting topic and thread. I wonder if Simon Reynolds dealt with this phenomenon in Retromania (which I read when it came out but that was some time ago).
― giraffe, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 11:57 (three months ago) link
agreed, great revive.
Tangled Up In Blue seemed vaguely Deep to me as a younger person, never one of my faves but I dug it. at 42, i find it a lovely mix of goofy Dylan shaggy-dog stuff and a near-magic encapsulation of this sense of having a personal Past. i bet it works whether you've moved around a lot, stayed in one place, become a carpenter's wife, whatever.
Still Crazy has less incident and it's not nearly the same kind of a Rorschach blot, but is so beautifully polished, especially the first verse. it gets at something.
― not the one who's tryin' to dub your anime (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 12:04 (three months ago) link
Not quite the same thing, but I had always assumed Jimmy Buffett's "A Pirate Looks at Forty" was at least semi-autobiographical, but it turns out he recorded it age 27.
― Josefa, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 15:24 (three months ago) link
Billy Stayhorn was 21 when he wrote Lush Life. It was a self fulfilling prophecy because he did become an alcoholic. It has the most depressing, world weary lyrics of any jazz standard i can think of and it shocked me when i learned how old he was when writing it.
― bbq, Tuesday, 20 February 2024 22:01 (three months ago) link
otm
― corrs unplugged, Wednesday, 21 February 2024 08:40 (three months ago) link
I love "Tangled Up in Blue," and in the regular world, Dylan being in his early 30s at the time would still count as young; in a pop music context, less so. Like another song I thought of and decided it was something different: Madonna's "This Used to Be My Playground" (she was 34).
― clemenza, Wednesday, 21 February 2024 16:27 (three months ago) link
I'm going to posit that Madonna had been through a few things by the time she was 34.
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Wednesday, 21 February 2024 16:31 (three months ago) link
She was tangled up in true blue.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 21 February 2024 16:33 (three months ago) link
Lol clemenza
― alpaca lips now (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 21 February 2024 16:46 (three months ago) link
I was just listening to Dion and the Belmonts singing “September Song” from 1960’s Wish Upon a Star album and thinking they sound much too young to sing those lyrics. But my benchmark of an appropriately grizzled performance is Willie Nelson’s 1978 recording and he was only 45 when that came out, which now seems a bit young for that death-haunted song.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 21 February 2024 16:55 (three months ago) link
Willie Nelson is an interesting case. He was already old when most us were born, and he is apparently immortal.
When he was relatively young, and wrote "Crazy," dinosaurs still roamed the plains. It's a bit weird to see pictures of young Willie, because his brand and image have solidified so much into the one we know.
― alpaca lips now (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 21 February 2024 17:05 (three months ago) link