The Monkees: Classic or Dud?

XP "Stranger In Strange Land" by Leon Russell and a different track with that name by the Blackburn & Snow (written by David Crosby).

Thanks! Not to be confused with Sam Phillips's "Signposts," from Walker Percy's Signposts in a Strange Land, which is quoted in full in the lyric.

Speaking of Peter, digging the first, Headquarters version of "Can You Dig it?"

While I have your attention: should I finally get around to watching that Harry Nilsson doc?

Yeah, although if you have access to the DVD/Blu release, make it that as there's some good extras, including a number of fun stories from Jimmy Webb's interview.

Thanks. Might just end up watching it on Tubi.

Micky is one of the first to speak.

Thought I read somewhere that The Monkees recording “Cuddly Toy” was a big break for him.

Yeah, Nesmith actually brought the Nilsson songs in, and actually recorded lead vocals on it and "Daddy's Song" before they were handed over to Davy (Nez versions later released as bonus tracks).

Nezsplaining w/all the "actually's"

Ha!

They played the Nez version of “Daddy’s Song” on that excellent WFMU tribute the day before yesterday.

Perhaps you should get one of those NEZ Dispenser t-shirts I just found at Amazon UK. I know that I want one.

Ugh, Terry Gilliam and Eric Idle, speaking of UK.

Wonder if I can make it through Headquarters Sessions before midnight.

Nilsson wrote "The Story of Rock'n'Roll" for the Monkees, who attempted it during the Headquarters sessions, but never got so far as a vocal. The Turtles ended up flopping with it as a non-LP single just prior to putting out "Elenore". The Turtles version is notable for the debut of Flo & Eddie's "Incredi-Voices" high backing vocals, later to feature in a # of T.Rex hits and album cuts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqrcGouxWd4

I’m only just on Setting Up the Studio for “Randy Scouse Git” so it will be a while before I get to that one I assume.

Read somewhere that the reason we have all this Monkees product is that around the time of The New Monkees, Raybert won back the rights and turned around and sold them to Rhino.

Sorry: Setting Up the Studio for "Alternative Title."

Monkees Chat transcibed here: https://monkees.coolcherrycream.com/songs/monkee-chat-studio-dialogue
There are some ? marks for one of the speakers, but clearly it is Chip Douglas.

Man, the backing vox on "Shades of Gray" are tight! Almost inclined to drink the Ron Hicklin Kool-Aid on this one, but every reputable source says Davy, Peter and Micky, which my ears are telling me too if I listen closely.

Read somewhere that the reason we have all this Monkees product is that around the time of The New Monkees, Raybert won back the rights and turned around and sold them to Rhino.

According to Sandoval book, what happened Schneider & Rafelson approached Columbia Pictures with the idea of doing a extended new cut of Easy Rider, only to find out that all the outtakes (technically the property of Raybert/BBS) had been removed from Columbia's warehouse and destroyed. They sued and won, getting all the Monkees stuff back from the studio, which they then sold to Rhino, who'd already done some deep-dive Monkees reissues. Ironically, Sony Pictures Television (sister company to Columbia Pictures) still handles the show in syndication.

I'm not exactly sure how the music rights worked out, because the Screen Gems/Colpix music library was spun away from RCA and got rebranded as part of Bell Records, which became part of Arista, who did the initial mainstream '80s Monkees reissues and maybe Pool It?

Thanks. Do you have the older edition of that book, or the new supersized version?

I had the older one, which I got as remainder.

Cool, because now that one seems to be fodder for my $900 Grandmothers thread.

I remember me or a roommate having The Monkees Greatest Hits or whatever on Arista and not digging “Shades of Gray” or “Listen to the Band” which to me both sounded out of place, whereas now “Shades of Gray” sounds great to me in context on Headquarters. I don’t know what magic Rhino had to do to get all the rights squared away but it certainly is some kind of Lord’s Work for the poor listener. On a related note, I just looked at a record earlier today on 45cat that was originally on Red Bird I think, and saw that the publishing was Trio, which I happen know was Leiber and Stoller, but they had pieces lots of different publishing companies, so many so that I think once Jerry said “only Mike can keep track of it.”

Oh, it was "Chapel of Love" I was looking at, or, more exactly it's B-side, "Ain't That Nice," which was not written by them, but Earl King. There was another time I was looking at the sheet music for some standard, can't recall which right now, and I could see three or four publishing companies on there, most of which I associated with them, so I assume it was one of their latter-day acquisitions.

To bring it back to The Monkees: although it was writen by Leiber and Stoller, "D.W. Washburn" was published by Screen Gems I see, but the B-side of the later, better Coasters version is published by Trio as expected.

"Shades of Gray" is one my favourite Monkees' songs. As is "Listen to the Band".

I know, I know. I am one of those old, shallow Monkees fans who really only liked the most obvious bubblegum and garage numbers and The Stone Poneys, "Different Drum," only just now having my eleventh hour Come to Papa Nez moment. FP me if you like.

I guess I am trying to say that they were ill-served by that hits collection I had, which had a somewhat similar effect as The Beatles Red & Blue collections, although obviously a lot shorter. Even if the songs on it were good there was something off about the sequencing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkees_Greatest_Hits

I don't remember the regular albums being available at the time, it's not like when I bought my used The Notorious Byrd Brothers there were copies on display or even in the racks of Headquarters and Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones Ltd..

But just noticed More Greatest Hits of The Monkees, which looks really good. Maybe if I had come across a copy of that back in the day, things would have been different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Greatest_Hits_of_The_Monkees

^^Killer tracklisting.

Rhino eventually handled the vinyl reissues of the regular albums in the mid-'80s; according to the later CD liners, their edition of Changes was only charting version, as the O.G. version tanked.

Prior to that, it seems like the earlier albums wouldn't have been a high priority to reissue, as they had to be pretty easy to find used. The earlier Rhino releases from the catalogue were strictly rarities/unreleased comps.

So you are saying I could have bought those records, I just wasn’t looking for them and they weren’t being presented to me. I guess I was also aware of the eventual Rhino reissues and probably of the MTV screenings but nothing and no one was compelling me to buy them. How many degrees of separation was I from The Monkees revival I wonder. Probably only two. No doubt someone I couldn’t keep up with like an April March was into them but I was a bit behind the curve as with Serge Gainsbourg etc.

Come to think of it at some point I bought my own copy of Then & Now to replace my roommates Arista album, but I still didn't quite get deep into it. The track list looks mostly all right to me now with a few problems, but still I never got the message that their albums were actually good. I wonder if The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows has a name for this.

I was lucky, I heard "Valleri" in like 1986 and never looked back, always liked them and had a 100-minute mixtape from a friend that I listened to a lot

So you are saying I could have bought those records, I just wasn’t looking for them and they weren’t being presented to me.

No. If anything I was musing on why that music had seemingly been consigned to the scrap bin of history, AKA cheapie bins, thrift stores, Goodwill etc. before Rhino stepped in and treated the catalogue with respect and scholarship.

Okay, thanks. I never had the full-on crate-digger dumpster diver instinct, so I would tend to go to the, not necessarily higher end but at least somewhat curated used record stores, where in my experience that stuff was nowhere to be found.

I imagine Monkees lps were the Hootie CDs of their day.

Do you think in a Rhino-less they would have comeback just not at the same level, or would they be consigned to limbo à la Dave Clark?

bit of an unfair comparison imo, Dave Clark got screwed by their publishers so there were never any reissues at all iirc?

I think it was Dave Clark himself who caused a lot of his own problems by not playing nice with reissuers.

ah ok, wasn't totally sure of the specifics there

Anyway, I was partly trolling, mostly thinking out loud. To answer my own question, I’d say a lot of it might have happened the same way, played out the same way, but maybe on a somewhat slightly smaller scale, and there might have been some lingering bitter aftertaste without had not Rhino acquired the rights and done right by them with the deluxe treatment.

Seems to me most acts eventually escape the cut-out bin somehow, with the exception of, say, Vikki Carr: POX.

The more I think about this, it was inevitable.

I agree. '60s nostalgia was really blowing up, their songs were popping up in After Hours and The Wonder Years, CDs were starting to happen...

Watched this Tork on Letterman in '82 video this morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfSuwTGpV5Q

In the main interview (starting around 11 minutes in) Peter mentions that the first four albums had blown up again in Japan, which of course leads to the reunion question.

Cool, thanks. He does a stumble entrance, nice.

This interview is good! Think the band was
playing "One Nation Under a Groove" during one of the breaks.

Wonder how many songs Micky sounds like Grace Slick on. "Daily Nightly" and "Zor and Zam" for sure.

As We Go Along is another. Maybe my fave monkees song.

Good one!