But surely the most indulgent Zappa fan wouldn't call it a consistent listen? I don't think Frank himself would, that wasn't his goal!
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 29 December 2021 19:00 (two years ago) link
But I can't see how someone can hear this - recorded 3 years after Waka Jawaka - and not immediately think of Zappa
I've never heard Waka Jawaka so you may be right on that score, I couldn't comment.
― I Can't See Gervais In My Mind (Tom D.), Wednesday, 29 December 2021 19:03 (two years ago) link
George Duke's playing on those early 70s albums is the key connection for me
I don't think FZ really looked at Ahead of Their Time as a major piece of work, more like a somewhat failed live experiment that was worth putting out 35 years after the fact
I love Uncle Meat, otoh
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Wednesday, 29 December 2021 19:09 (two years ago) link
I always associate Zappa with Beefheart, and he suffers by the comparison.
― jimbeaux, Wednesday, 29 December 2021 20:22 (two years ago) link
I love the music of both but yah of course Don is "cooler" not even a contest. A real ass artist with a real vision. Frank ain't that lol.
― kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 29 December 2021 22:03 (two years ago) link
I get why some people don't like Zappa.
What I don't get is why some people don't get why other people like him.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Wednesday, 29 December 2021 22:13 (two years ago) link
The only thing I can think of (and I personally of course have no prob with what people like) is that some people seem to worship him as a first name God. "Frank", a la "Jerry" or the like. Just a little too much reverential adulation. In fact, I think I've noted on this thread before, or maybe the Dead thread, that Zappa and the Dead might be the two most undeniably influential, even music-changing acts where I both totally get it and yet don't really want to hear it.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 29 December 2021 23:09 (two years ago) link
^Big second to this post.
― Heatmiserlou (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 30 December 2021 00:39 (two years ago) link
With acts at that level of popularity, it becomes impossible to dismiss all the fans outright, but also hard to really care and find a way in when all the obvious entry points leave one cold. Too many other artists to pursue, too many Missing Links, DO U SEE?
― Heatmiserlou (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 30 December 2021 15:34 (two years ago) link
Seems like this is especially a Zappa thing (particularly in comparison to the Dead), but I feel that Zappa is a fandom that makes it hard to be a casual fan (like me, who digs the '60s stuff and perhaps gets more than most out of Joe's Garage) because any interaction with the hardcore leads to "You gotta hear this...and this..." in an almost belligerent way.
― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 30 December 2021 15:55 (two years ago) link
Guy was genius, he didn't play prog rock or jazz rock he played Zappamusic etc.
― I Can't See Gervais In My Mind (Tom D.), Thursday, 30 December 2021 15:59 (two years ago) link
I definitely see the Waka/Grand Wazoo influence on Magmaat the very least secondhand via Soft Machine who were huge Zappa fans, and maybe the only band Zappa viewed as equals
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 30 December 2021 16:12 (two years ago) link
Never heard this last thing
― Heatmiserlou (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 30 December 2021 16:31 (two years ago) link
"Grand Wazoo" bored the tits off me so, at the very least, Magma improved on it.
― I Can't See Gervais In My Mind (Tom D.), Thursday, 30 December 2021 16:34 (two years ago) link
Actually, now I come to think of it, I have heard Waka/Jawaka, it's Chunga's Revenge I was thinking of.
― I Can't See Gervais In My Mind (Tom D.), Thursday, 30 December 2021 16:36 (two years ago) link
grand wazoo whips
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 30 December 2021 16:55 (two years ago) link
Feel like with other bands like, say, The Beards, I mean The Byrds, the body has time to build up a healthy immmunity: "Mr. Tambourine Man," Mister Tambourine Man, Turn!, Turn!, Turn!...Notorious Byrd Brothers...Sweetheart of the Rodeo,.....Untitled...., whereas with FZ it just seems like an immediate 24/7 constant barrage of The Central Scrutinizer Two-Minute Hate-smashing a xylophone mallet onto a human eardrum over and over forever and ever.
― Heatmiserlou (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 30 December 2021 17:11 (two years ago) link
Tim Smith obviously was― frogbs, Wednesday, 22 December 2021 01:06 (one week ago)
Of course. For further evidence of this (and more importantly, potential delight) see the Piffol instrumentals (and T.V.T.V. which is also a Piffol) he was doing as a teen. I love that stuff.
― feed me with your clicks (Noel Emits), Thursday, 30 December 2021 17:50 (two years ago) link
― I Can't See Gervais In My Mind (Tom D.), Thursday, December 30, 2021 11:36 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
I'm loath to cast myself as Captain Zappasplainer, especially since I agree with what Grisso / McCain said upthread, but I do think a Magma fan would find much to enjoy in these two albums in particular, so you may wanna give them another go at some point. Mostly instrumental, very few antics or bad jokes, just Zappa doing his version of jazz fusion with some extraordinary playing and genuinely gorgeous tunes, like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-Qk8VxUwuM
― Paul Ponzi, Thursday, 30 December 2021 18:12 (two years ago) link
wazoo’s “eat that question” and “blessed relief” are the peak of zappa jazz fusion for me
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 30 December 2021 18:14 (two years ago) link
Well, what can I say, does nothing for me.
― I Can't See Gervais In My Mind (Tom D.), Thursday, 30 December 2021 18:16 (two years ago) link
Waka and Wazoo are big blind spots for me, I need to check those out someday.
Shut Up And Play Yer Guitar is also great for people who just wanna listen to bad ass guitar fusion madness without lyrics
― chaos goblin line cook (sleeve), Thursday, 30 December 2021 18:16 (two years ago) link
Fired up Läther thanks to this thread. I wish he'd done a full album of mostly-percussion tape-edit pieces like the interstitial bits on this.
― Everybody Loves Ramen (WmC), Thursday, 30 December 2021 18:19 (two years ago) link
i thought i would love the guitar solo edits records but alas they were really tough going. maybe i was tired of zappa by then (iirc i didn’t even get through sheik yerbouti). feel like there’s a single disc reduction that’s perfect that would take way too much effort to assemble
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 30 December 2021 18:19 (two years ago) link
läther is absolutely dope tho. every side of zappa in its most realized permutation
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 30 December 2021 18:20 (two years ago) link
My favourite Zappa guitar solo excursion is "Nine Types of Industrial Pollution (400 Days of the Year)" on Uncle Meat, most of the rest of his solos I can take or leave.
― Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 30 December 2021 18:51 (two years ago) link
that one is great!!! the worst side effect of my zappa phase was figuring out how to enjoy uncle meat
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, 30 December 2021 19:02 (two years ago) link
Shut Up And Play Yer Guitar is also great for people who just wanna listen to bad ass guitar fusion madness without lyricsI once bought it for exactly that reason, but sadly could not get into it :(
― Texas Medicine v. Railroad Gin (morrisp), Thursday, 30 December 2021 19:05 (two years ago) link
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, December 30, 2021 2:02 PM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
Uncle Meat is Houses of The Holy compared to Thing Fish, which is one of the worst records I have ever heard
― Paul Ponzi, Thursday, 30 December 2021 19:23 (two years ago) link
I find it curious that my guitar teacher, who can play anything (more or less), *hates* Zappa's guitar playing. Like, I don't love it, but I've never had a problem with it. I think he saw an old Zappa interview where he was ripping on Motown for being shitty hacks or something and never forgave him for it.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 30 December 2021 23:24 (two years ago) link
Knew of the quote it the rest of this Lou Reed interview/set of takes is really funny.
Lou Reed, rock critic. pic.twitter.com/kzT8gnYk7A— Theo Cogs (@realtedcogs) January 23, 2022
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 24 January 2022 13:01 (two years ago) link
― Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 30 December 2021 bookmarkflaglink
This is fantastic!
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 24 January 2022 13:34 (two years ago) link
Lol yeah I was just looking at that Lou Reed bit. The Roxy Music one is spot on imo. Do Warhol next.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Monday, 24 January 2022 13:36 (two years ago) link
Shit, this is getting to what, half an album's worth of good Zappa music? Crazy..
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 24 January 2022 13:38 (two years ago) link
Lou such a liar though, he was slagging off the Beatles a few years later.
― Someone left a space telescope out in the rain (Tom D.), Monday, 24 January 2022 13:46 (two years ago) link
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Monday, January 24, 2022 7:36 AM (twenty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
click the link to expand the pic and he does below doug yule though i suspect you will be disappointed
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 24 January 2022 14:09 (two years ago) link
His comments on Alice Cooper are funny considering that they shared a producer and guitarists!
― Johnny Mathis der Maler (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 24 January 2022 14:36 (two years ago) link
xpost Haha no about what I expected tbh but one can always hope. Jeez I am absolutely failing at reading comprehension right now tho, that’s two for two. Back to lurking.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Monday, 24 January 2022 14:39 (two years ago) link
no worries! it didn't show on the pic
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 24 January 2022 14:45 (two years ago) link
- In Pete Townshend's defence, he does say in "The Seeker" that Timothy Leary couldn't help him, it's the opposite of acid sermonizing.- Lou obviously went back and forth on Dylan; when Bob said that he wished he had written "Doing the Things That We Want To", Lou sent a flunky to buy all of his recent records.- Sterling Morrison was also a CCR fan, as well as the Band, I think?
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 24 January 2022 15:03 (two years ago) link
Dylan was a big influence on early Lou, no? Some of these demos before John worked his magic, I mean...
― Tapioca Tumbril (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 24 January 2022 15:07 (two years ago) link
Like you can trust anything Lou said in the 70s.
― Someone left a space telescope out in the rain (Tom D.), Monday, 24 January 2022 15:11 (two years ago) link
Indeed. Didn't we talk about how Lou almost got invited to play on the Rolling Thunder Revue? Also:http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TURsO0Ho6fc/Um5GcsufA8I/AAAAAAAAFF8/dsca_1iMoog/s1600/1985_25_yr_award_with_Lou_Reed_Judy_Collins_2+-+copia.jpg
― Tapioca Tumbril (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 24 January 2022 15:12 (two years ago) link
this has always sounded very VU to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUHNSYPvsoA
― bulb after bulb, Monday, 24 January 2022 15:17 (two years ago) link
I forgot about the whole Al Aronowitz Robbie Robertson Dylan Velvets connection.
― Tapioca Tumbril (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 24 January 2022 15:24 (two years ago) link
Oh, wait this a Zappa thread so we should be talking about FZ making fun of Nico instead.
― Tapioca Tumbril (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 24 January 2022 15:25 (two years ago) link
People's enthusiasm for Reed slagging off Zappa made me think about why that guy conjures up such animosity - my dad was a big Zappa fan but outside of that the only real Zappa lovers I've known are ppl otherwise not much into music. He's been unfashionable ever since I can remember, doesn't even get that much play in Mojo/Uncut type publications and yet ppl HATE Zappa with the sort of passion usually reserved for more ubiquitous artists. I know that he has his hardcore fans but they seem a pretty marginalised bunch within wider music discourse?
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 16:36 (two years ago) link
My grad program had a Zappa ensemble.
― The sensual shock (Sund4r), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 16:50 (two years ago) link
"Frank Zappa: Master Composer" was sometimes offered as a upper year undergrad elective.
― The sensual shock (Sund4r), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 16:51 (two years ago) link
Admittedly mostly because of one guy but it's not like he had trouble getting joiners.
― The sensual shock (Sund4r), Tuesday, 25 January 2022 16:55 (two years ago) link