I have had it up to here waiting for the Beatles catalogue to be remastered

Like, as the legend goes, the whole reason they had to play weird honky European instruments was because due to holdover wartime rationing, it was very difficult to get the decent-quality American instruments being made at the time. They wanted Strats and Teles (again, so the legend goes) like American musicians and the Shadows were playing at the time, but they simply weren't available.

Once it became possible to just send Mal out to pick up some Strats or Teles or whatever, they were already too spoiled and famous and rich to "properly" appreciate them (again, so the legend goes).

BUT at the same time, they made some pretty frking indelible music with the allegedly subpar instruments (and decidedly underpowered sound reinforcement) they had, so.

They really only had crap instruments until they went to Hamburg, and even then, John somehow got his hands on a Rickenbacker. George bought a Gretsch Duo-Jet from a sailor in Liverpool who'd brought it back from the US (his guitar on Please Please Me), and only switched to a Gretsch Chet Atkins because the Duo-Jet got stolen. Paul had the weakest instrument, that anemic-sounding Hofner bass. The moment they were able to get decent amps, George and John got Vox AC-30s in 1961 or '62, but EMI's restrictions meant they couldn't turn them up to Hamburg/Cavern levels in the studio. They actually stuck with various Vox amps through much (most? all?) of Sgt. Pepper and parts of the white album. George and John got Epiphones in 1966 (which John kept; not sure about George's). Paul and George were both given Rickenbackers in 1964, but Paul didn't like how heavy the bass was, and didn't really mess with it until 1965 ("Think For Yourself"). George was given the second Rickenbacker 12-string ever made, and later bought another one (a slightly different model). Paul had a Fender Esquire in '66 ("Taxman" solo), and George got his Strat around then ("Nowhere Man" solo). George and Paul got baked one night and painted their guitars; George kept the psychedelic paintjob, while Paul later stripped his Rickenbacker, but used that bass at least through '76, and probably later.

Ringo's Premiers sounded amazing on Please Please Me. He only bought Ludwigs for the finish. Coincidentally or not, Please Please Me has by far the best drum sound on a Beatles record until 1966.

So the upshot is that, starting in 1961-62, George, John, and Ringo all had great instruments (and Paul bent his Hofner to his will). While they would later sometimes use Fenders or Gibsons, that was a change in sound rather than quality.

(Sorry, that was long.)

Thanks Tarfumes for your superior nerdery

Someone mentioned this way upthread, but it was really interesting seeing the Fender VI bass in action in Get Back. It's such an odd instrument that I've heard about much more than I've ever seen. I guess the first time I noticed one was in a TV clip of Cream playing "Strange Brew" where Jack Bruce is miming playing one - which confused me initially bc I thought it was a guitar. Still seems counterintuitive that you could get bassy tones out of those narrowish strings.

wow, great post Tarfumes. i know zero about this stuff, but it adds some texture to my fandom.

Indeed, booming post, Tarfumes.

I first saw the Fender VI in that same Cream video and thought they were just using a regular guitar for the lipsync which insight I posted on this borad, promoting a tough love teaching moment from one (ex-)ILX0R, at which point I learned my lesson, or that lesson at least.

How all the Beatles took the Stylophone and made crazy sci-fi flying saucer sounds on it, having a laugh.

And then Billy takes it to the side and proceeds to actually play "Old Brown Shoe" on it.

Yes, I noticed that. Because, he could.

the whole reason they had to play weird honky European instruments was because due to holdover wartime rationing, it was very difficult to get the decent-quality American instruments being made at the time

You actually couldn't buy American guitars in Britain during the '50s. The ban was only lifted in 1959.

https://www.ajournalofmusicalthings.com/when-it-was-illegal-to-buy-american-guitars-in-britain/

Paul's loyalty to Hofner basses is kind of odd, still plays one primarily to this day.

Though maybe he gets really high quality ones with good hardware/pickups custom made that look like the old one.

Trying to find my own BASSMAN sticker... Bet the rest of the band would be very impressed.

I sort of understand his attachment to Hofners: it was the first bass he ever played, so anything else just isn't going to feel as comfortable and familiar. And he's not getting any younger, so a lighter bass makes the most sense now.

Even in Get Back, I think there's a moment in the second part where John asks him why he doesn't use one of the better ones and he says he's sticking with it 'cause it's lighter'.

Never thought about that, that he was playing the Rick for a while before he went back to the Hofner.

Then again I recently looked at the history of John Entwistle's basses and was surprised at the times he was just playing a Precision, like on The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus.

I have a VI and it’s *cool*, all my pinky guitar riffs sound like a grand piano

Although I guess it wasn't "just" a Precision.

argh *plinky

I thought a Fender VI was the equivalent of a baritone guitar, like what the country musicians called a tic-tac guitar, used to double the upright bass, or the Danelectro Glen Campbell borrowed from Carol Kaye to play the solos on "Wichita Lineman" and "Galveston."

Glyn John's fashion is off the hook

Until it wasn’t

https://i.imgur.com/6LPmCMt.png

I thought a Fender VI was the equivalent of a baritone guitar

a Fender VI is typically tuned lower than a baritone guitar, a full octave below standard guitar tuning, while a baritone guitar is only a third to a fifth lower

Ah, okay, good to know.

Then again I recently looked at the history of John Entwistle's basses and was surprised at the times he was just playing a Precision, like on The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus.

He ran through most of the major guitar makes throughout his career (he even played a semi-hollow Gretsch bass on one TV appearance). He consistently played Fenders from ‘65 through ‘70 (it’s a Fender Jazz on “My Generation”), but when the halls got bigger, he needed something with more bass that would reach the back rows. So he switched to a Gibson Thunderbird in ‘71, and played that (or sometimes a “Fenderbird” — he put a Precision neck on a Gibson) through ‘74, when he decided he missed that biting treble sound. That’s when he found Alembic, and stuck with them until the late ‘80s. (He also kept adding to his massive amp rig, and was deaf as a post by the time he died.)

Full history here (the go-to site for all your Who gear nerd needs): https://www.thewho.net/whotabs/gear/bass/bass.html

To bring it back to the Beatles, Entwistle was on one of Ringo’s All-Starr tours in the ‘90s, and claimed to have played “Yellow Submarine” more times than Paul McCartney.

Hah! I have no doubt that he did, and probably lots of similar statements could be made.

Responding to (but affirming) minority posts from above: I love Mr. Moonlight because it's so crazy and also because it fits into that category of Beatles songs with lame keyboard solos in the middle (like the cheesy department store stag film piano in the otherwise great "Not a Second Time"). Also John is off the hook on that one.

Even more unpopularly, I totally have a soft spot for the George Martin curry restaurant edition of the Help! album. The title song still feels incomplete to me without the James Bond intro.

Poor John Entwhistle...

JE: Finally. I'll never have to play "Magic Bus" again!

RS: You ready, Johnny? IN THE TOWWWWN, WHERE I WAS BORRRRN....

lol. My favorite Ringo’s All-Stars story was Jack Bruce and Dave Edmunds complaining about learning Eric Carmen’s songs because he “changes chords with every word” or something like that

Re:Anthology discussion earlier, i love the stuff they did on Morecambe & Wise, when they sang Moonlight Bay

someone put up the entire episode which i’d not seen before (Beatles interaction comes at 28:15, but they have a couple of earlier musical numbers as well - that boy & all my loving)

i just love how happy they are to be on the show, you can tell they were big fans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9dJG8GnmY

https://observer.com/2017/08/eric-carmen-raspberries-pop-art-live-interview/
Apparently the current crop of All-Stars is less well-known to us older ILX0rs

If you dig Morecambe and Wise you might like this, which I only recently learned about and is quite amazing. Beatles as Midsummer Night Dream's rude mechanicals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxXkdYr5JYg

!

I saw Ringo's All Starr Band for the first time in 2019 (I think, maybe it was 18) and it was so much fucking fun. We got Steve Lukather and Colin Hay! I mean I got to hear Men at Work songs with Ringo playing drums. That fucking ruled. Also Ringo did Photograph and Boys and a bunch of other shit you want to hear him sing. It was a blast.

that sounds incredible

I saw on ... PBS? one of those shows with Colin Hay.

I mean, it wasn't The Beatles covering Canned Heat or anything, but watching Ringo pound in that intro to "Who Can It Be Now" felt a little disorienting.

lol yes the "Not a Second Time" piano, it absolutely rules but if i pay attention to it it's absolutely cheesy. best kind of bizarre period detail imo. it's probably good they don't have more forays into this kind of thing, but it would be kinda fun if they had as many songs with skating-rink organ on them as they do songs with harmonica on them.

does john ever break out the old harmonica at any point after its heyday? that would have been a great way to "get back."

Don’t think so. You will have make do with Ron, Ron Nasty, I guess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfTlGMCeuDE

imagining all those Lennon solo albums with harmonica instead of those dirty sax parts he clearly loved so much. i think it's mostly an improvement.

HD Jr asked about mono vs stereo tonight & of course that got me into a streak about how good a good mono mix can be, which monologue ended up with us dancing to side 1 of With the Beatles, my biggest revelation from the 2009/2014 mono box (previously I’d only heard the execrable stereo version of Meet the Beatles). We both highly dug the harmonica on “Litte Child”. John should have busted it out on “One After 909.”

i got my Mono box on christmas day 2009 and i was staying with my inlaws - i put Please Please Me on the cd player in the kitchen and we had a blast twisting & shouting to all those joyful songs. especially with my inlaws, two people who experienced these songs the first time around in the same way. it was such a wonderful moment to be like oh yeah duh - you are MEANT to dance to these songs! (i mean i feel like i have been all my life but it was a great reminder)

^^ I love this thread.

New poll here:
Which Beatle has Get Back most reshaped your idea of?

Fribbulus I'm glad I'm not the only one who loves the lameness of the Not a Second Time piano. And I totally agree re. the harmonica. I've been listening to the Beatles catalog in order with my daughter (with side trips into contemporary Beach Boys, Byrds, etc for context), and we were just wondering what the last appearances of harmonica and 12-string are. Seems like 12-string makes occasional appearances later on, but harmonica is gone sometime in 1964.

my inlaws, two people who experienced these songs the first time around in the same way. it was such a wonderful moment to be like oh yeah duh - you are MEANT to dance to these songs!

We took a cruise with the grandparents some years back. There was a Beatles cover band playing one of the ballrooms, and my bullseye-demographic (step?) father in law totally busted out a bunch of dance moves with my kids to all the old-school Beatles cuts.

i wanna do an early beatles cover set with my band so bad particularly just to play “boys”

Pretty sure I’m a Loser is the last harmonica appearance. Not sure about 12 string.

Seems like 12-string makes occasional appearances later on, but harmonica is gone sometime in 1964.

― three of the doctor's valuable bats are now dead (broom air), Friday, December 10, 2021 8:46 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think the last Beatles song with (electric) 12-string is "If I Needed Someone." There's also the rejected take of "And Your Bird Can Sing" which was recorded later, but not released at the time (on Anthology 2).

Actually, now that I think about it, the harmonica rears its head again on "All Together Now". It's probably served up as a textural element in other late period stuff.

Yes, for instance there's harmonica on "Rocky Raccoon".

There's a harmonica on "Her Majesty"

Granted, nobody actually plays it, but.

Many xposts but u got this exactly backwards:

It's my understanding that he's saying Fat, but his accent makes it sound like fart

― a (waterface), Tuesday, November 30, 2021 12:50 PM bookmarkflaglink

The accent made it sound like "fat", it's fart, there are treatises on this

Ringo's fart is canon.

so is George Martin's response. He knew his boys.