I have had it up to here waiting for the Beatles catalogue to be remastered

Paul is totally Robbie Robertson at this point

Take a load off, Paulie

BTW I am a drummer and you are all exactly right. Ringo makes precisely zero mistakes. His playing is impeccable throughout, even when he's clearly tired and bored.

And he doesn't start stupid wanky time-waster jams (though he participates, because he's a good egg and a good sport and he's glad to even be there).

I like how they keep teasing him about Jimmie Nichol.

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, November 30, 2021 2:47 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Loved that bit where Paul goes on about how Jimmie kept missing the count-in ("One! Two!" ... silence).

Not to get into this again, but I am a drummer, too, and the key to Ringo is that he does not *need* to be a great drummer, he just needs to be the best drummer for the Beatles, and in that regard he's more than perfect. And more to the point, no matter what anyone thinks of him as a musician, there is not a single Beatles song worse for Ringo.

I'm no drummer, but Ringo's the only musician besides Preston who doesn't make a mistake. He's always there.

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, November 30, 2021 2:48 PM (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Mark Lewisohn has said that out of the hundreds of false starts and incomplete takes over the course of their recording career, there were a total of six instances where Ringo made a mistake that necessitated another take.

One more thing, the whole time, RS has that stupid fucking tea towel on his snare drum.

Like, you're globally famous, universally beloved, and an acknowledged master of your craft. So we're just gonna take the main part of your main instrument and make it so you can only access it by going through something from the Woolworths housewares aisle.

Some Harrison Bergeron shit rifht there

Like hey, Paul, I heard you're good at playing bass, so you surely won't mind if I just place this clothespin on your A string at the seventh fret. Carry on, pip pip, cheerio, stiff upper lip and all that rot

By the way, the same musicianship gauge can be applied to ... well, everyone but Paul, really. Is George the best guitarist in the world. No, and thank goodness! Early in the doc he's complaining that he doesn't have the chops of Clapton, and all I can say is: phew! Especially his slide playing, which is super distinctive without being showy. And John, is John a great guitarist or piano player? No, not particularly, and it's always for the better. Imagine if all of the band was as good at their instruments as Paul is on the bass. It would be a wanky mess.

I'm no guitarist either, but George is damn good; I can always tell him apart even as a sessioneer. The ease with which his slide guitar incorporates what he picked up from India and the ukulele sounds like no one else's.

You can't argue with the snare sound though.

IIRC, Lewisohn also pointed out that Ringo's remarkably consistent timing also made it easier on the Beatle when they experimented in the studio - i.e. unless they purposely changed the tempo, it was almost a given things would generally match up in terms of speed. Heck just listen to "She Loves You" - they spliced together two different takes and instead of the obvious change in EQ, it still keeps the same pace after the edit.

And regarding his drumming overall, I think Klaus Voorman put it best in that Plastic Ono Band documentary - "Ringo has TASTE."

Well, apart from "long and winding" was there anything much wrong with Spector's finished article?

I don't like the orchestral overdubs, but that applies to only three cuts. "Maggie Mae" and "Dig It" feel like rubbish tossed into the mix. I don't like how Spector mangled the 45 take of "Get Back" - the new ending is good, but that should have been part of a reprise, not chopped into the single. The track sequence could be better. "Don't Let Me Down" should have been included, but I don't think that was his call. That sounds like a lot wrong, but Spector always used the best takes - nearly all of them are different and better than the ones Glyn Johns used. And except for the overdubs and edits I just mentioned, when Spector left the performances alone, the mixes were much better - more dynamics, more life, more oomph.

I can't stand the Spector 1970 version of Across the Universe.

I don't like it either. I prefer the alternate version found on Anthology 2. But John said he really liked what Spector did to it. It's not the version I would like to use (on the personal mix I listen to, I don't), but if I was asked do re-do the album, I'd keep it simply because John isn't here and without his approval it would feel like going against his wishes, just as the overdubs on "The Long and Winding Road" went against Paul's.

It's kind of strange that Let It Be...Naked was instigated by Paul, yet when it came time to put it together, he was really, really hands off. There's an interview somewhere with the mixing engineers and reissue producer where they describe the whole process, and surprisingly, they were basically left to their own devices. (Bud Scoppa mentions it here.) They just got instructions to make the best album possible (without Spector's overdubs), and when they sent it out for notes, Paul just signed off on it with no feedback. Weird.

The Glyn Johns mix sux!

Truth.

One more thing, the whole time, RS has that stupid fucking tea towel on his snare drum.

Like, you're globally famous, universally beloved, and an acknowledged master of your craft. So we're just gonna take the main part of your main instrument and make it so you can only access it by going through something from the Woolworths housewares aisle.

Some Harrison Bergeron shit rifht there

― you can bloviate any toad you sew (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, November 30, 2021 2:15 PM (thirty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah but dead drums sound amazing though. if it sounds great then do it imo. i'm not sure they had oil filled heads yet, i know ian paice from deep purple used them but not sure when he started

I'm no guitarist either, but George is damn good; I can always tell him apart even as a sessioneer. The ease with which his slide guitar incorporates what he picked up from India and the ukulele sounds like no one else's.

It's pretty amazing how he brings all that new instrumentation into the Beatles and really all of rock 'n' roll.

This is probably locked up in WXRT's archives in Chicago somewhere, but the very first Sound Opinions I've ever listened to was a 90 minute or 2 hour show dedicated to George. It kicked off with Kot and DeRogatis mentioning that a lot of their colleagues at their respective newspapers asked them if George was really that important to the Beatles, so they spent the whole time going through his contributions, even bringing in a guitarist to go over the technical side of things. Maybe not as an improviser, but in terms of record making and rock 'n' roll, George really is one of the great guitarists. He was a good Carl Perkins acolyte in the beginning, absorbing plenty of other influences in the mix, but from there, he popularizes the 12-string (McGuinn sees A Hard Day's Night and the Byrds are more or less conceived at that moment), brings in a sitar (massively influential even when he was playing it in rudimentary fashion - he gets much better with it by the next album), he starts composing solos to be recorded backwards, and as mentioned, the beautiful slide technique that sounds all the more distinctive when everyone else is copying Elmore James. And yes, even before ukuleles became a twee and annoying trend, he made some charming music out of it.

this drummer on tiktok put together a nice appreciation of the inventiveness of ringo's drum parts: https://www.tiktok.com/@grahamethedrummer/video/7024195168324668678

I thought the towel on the snare was there just to help keep the volume down so that the mics could pic up all their banter

"Drumming Is My Madness" is one of the great solo Beatles songs.

he doesn't drum on it, though, right?

xpost - it will bring the volume down a bit but it's mostly used in the studio to dampen the sound, less ring and attack. the Beatles are the most famous for it, but lots of bands do it. they used tea towels on Abbey Road too

oil filled heads, two layer heads with a thin layer of oil in between, do the same thing, or people put o rings or even electricians tape on the snare head too

yeah, i was gonna say, don't drummers do that a lot?

yah all the time

sometimes if i'm just recording a snare by itself, I'll press my whole hand on it to get that tight snare sound

Feel like Al Jackson Jr. put his wallet on snare, along with plenty of others, yeah.

1:29 here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OlA_JVbQl8

A wallet on a snare will reduce the ring, but still allows for crack. The tea towel gets rid of the ring, the crack, and just about any other resonance that might be produced. I’d argue that Ringo putting the tea towel on his snare (and sometimes his floor tom) ultimately gave birth to the 1970s LA studio drum sounds.

My snares have Remo Muffls on - an internal foam ring. My late lamented '70s Rogers kit had internal dampers that adjusted with a screw. I've always had bits of tape or gels or a wallet or whatever for ring-dampening, sure.

But here's the thing - I get to interact directly with the batter head. Especially when using brushes on a coated head, it's a whole world of texture and response that you don't get through a towel. I agree that the sound is good, but there are other ways to get that sound without hampering the man's interaction with his instrument.

I mean, like "Hey John, your guitar is too loud, but instead of turning you down, I'm gonna ask you to play with gloves on." Same thing imo

but from there, he popularizes the 12-string

George’s was the second 12-string that Rickenbacker had ever made; it was really a prototype. So George was singlehandedly responsible for that sound and approach being heard.

I’d argue that Ringo putting the tea towel on his snare (and sometimes his floor tom) ultimately gave birth to the 1970s LA studio drum sounds.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, November 30, 2021 3:33 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i spent a lot of time with abbey road earlier this year and there were moments when the album felt really "70s" to me in a way, whereas their other stuff feels obviously very "60s"

It seems like a bunch of bands had a clear “sounds like ‘60s”/“sounds like ‘70s” line of demarcation. One that springs to mind is the Kinks’ ‘60s-sounding Arthur, followed a year later by the very different- /‘70s-sounding Lola vs. Powerman (which, granted, came out in 1970). I assume it’s down to something more than just studios moving to transistorized desks (as Abbey Road had just prior to Abbey Road), but I dunno.

When in doubt: compressors!

Paul is totally Robbie Robertson at this point

I think that's another thing throwing off the Beatles here: so many British acts were absolutely spooked by the Band. George certainly was, Eric Clapton certainly was, even Fairport Convention (the most English of bands) was obsessed with the Band. That might have explained the impetus to sit around in a circle writing songs, getting back to basics/their roots, etc. But of course what worked for the Band barely even worked for the Band. You can't just put everyone in a room and declare "OK, now we're just going to casually come up with some incredible stuff," especially when you're the Beatles and you've not just come off a long period of not performing together but made some of their best music messing around in the studio.

And John, is John a great guitarist or piano player? No, not particularly, and it's always for the better.

I've always loved his quote, "I’m OK, I’m not technically good, but I can make it fucking howl and move. I was rhythm guitarist. It’s an important job."

Just had an image of strung-out Levon chasing Todd Rundgren around Bearsville, or whatever happened back then.

The Woodstock Playhouse, I guess

re: The Band, I keep thinking of starting a poll of UK responses to Big Pink, but I can never get a list I’m happy with.

(Off the top of my head: Get Back/Let It Be, Fairport’s Unhalfbricking, Jack Bruce’s “Theme From An Imaginary Western,” Blind Faith, Humble Pie’s Town and Country, probably a couple of Traffic records, most of Led Zeppelin III…)

Derek and the Dominos for sure.

Muswell Hillbillies, belatedly? Exile on Main Street, peripherally?

ok i finally tuned into the wavelength of this thing and now i can’t turn it off

I am just rubbernecking on this thread for the time being.

Don't mind me, I will just sit behind this guitar amp. Nothing to see here.

either the bad editing choices are front-loaded in ep 1 or i’ve just gotten used to them

insane to me that they appear to have prepared the Apple basement for recording by covering the walls with hard metallic sheeting??

Don't mind me, I will just sit behind this guitar amp. Nothing to see here.

― Duck and Sally Can’t Dance (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, November 30, 2021 6:07 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

say hey to the hare krishnas for me

The bad editing is front-loaded, yes. It is either just how the material worked (they had a lot more usable audio than usable video), or a way to weed out casual viewers so that only the truly dedicated see it through to its glorious conclusion.

Tracer, they appear to be hinged panels that can be reflective to different levels

Anyone mentioned Godard's Sympathy for the Devil in connection with this? It's playing a rep theatre here in a couple of weeks--from the description I read (don't think I've seen it but not 100% sure), sounds similar but considerably shorter.

I wondered if that was a remnant of Magic Alex’ doings. According to Harrison, the “72-track studio” that Alex built there was just 72 tiny speakers placed around the room. I was hoping we’d get to see what he wrought.

xp

re: The Band, I keep thinking of starting a poll of UK responses to Big Pink, but I can never get a list I’m happy with.

(Off the top of my head: Get Back/Let It Be, Fairport’s Unhalfbricking, Jack Bruce’s “Theme From An Imaginary Western,” Blind Faith, Humble Pie’s Town and Country, probably a couple of Traffic records, most of Led Zeppelin III…)

In general, there was a back-to-roots movement that was happening at that time and you can trace the influence to both Dylan and the Band (mainly the Basement Tapes). Grateful Dead, the Byrds (not to mention Gram Parsons and his Burrito Brothers), and I'm tempted to add Elvis's resurgence as well - his comeback recordings went more towards Memphis Soul than country rather than the showbiz Hollywood soundtracks he had been doing. The Stones independently moved in a similar direction, from TSMR to Beggars Banquet.

I'm not sure if anyone's written a book about it, but there ought to be.

*Memphis or Southern soul then country

Yeah, it’s definitely true that there was a general oh-man-I-gotta-get-my-head-together-in-the-country sentiment among a number of bands/musicians, but the UK response is interesting to me (and unique) due to a number of factors. Some tried to just plain mimic the Band; some decided their “roots” were in English folk music; and others decided their “roots” were in Black American folk blues. Overall, it was a massive collective LSD hangover, but the Brits — especially Cream and the Beatles — reacted the most severely to Big Pink. Bands like the Grateful Dead or the Byrds just turned down a bit, or swapped electric guitars for acoustic, but UK bands seemed to re-think their entire approach (or, like Cream and the Small Faces, just broke up).

(A notable exception is the Who. Townshend was never a massive Band fan, though he admired them, and the closest they got to a Big Pink response was “Let’s See Action,” released four years after the Band’s record.)

Anyone mentioned Godard's Sympathy for the Devil in connection with this?

I definitely thought about it! I think on my DVD there is an option to just watch the just Stones footage but I don't know if there's any additional material. From memory it was definitely a definitive '60s band in the studio' document but it generally feels more purposeful and with less interpersonal complexity? Like Brian Jones is kind of fading away in plain sight but it's all subtext.

And of course there is all the other political material intercut - which I love but would be a hard slog if you were only there for the Stones.

I think John Wesley Harding deserves a lot of credit for the back to roots thing, that predates Big Pink and Sweethearts of the Rodeo or I think anything else mentioned