New Adventures in Hi Fi?

rem obviously the better band overall but u2 peaked higher

it still trips me out to remember that rem were as big as they were. i mean sure they had catchy songs that catered somewhat to the zeitgeist, but it was hard to hide the fact that they were artsy, insular and retro leaning at heart, just a band playing together and looking weird doing it. i guess that was the general trend with college rock from the 80s though so it does make some sense, it's just that rem, to me, somehow feel more unlikely as a success story than others.

i disagree. i think that rem is so much better than U2 that it's unbelievable and it makes older people at the BBQ choke on their hotwings.

i say that as a fan of 80s U2

xp

rem is unquestionably better than u2 in all respects imo

but U2 is one of those bands that sucked so hard, so incredibly bad, sucking so badly, from the mid-90s on that it's just like fuck you U2, i don't even care that you used to be good, because you suck so badly now, and the fact that you keep going and making money, i mean come on, fuck you, fuck you bono, fuck you edge, fuck you larry mullen, fuck you other guy, you're all rich, fuck you

really there's no end for the hatred for U2 because they're so well off and they suck so badly

but I just don't like it on REM songs. To me, it feels like they're painting with a borrowed palette when they use it.

― brotherlovesdub, Wednesday, November 3, 2021 2:17 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

severe counterpoint: peter buck's distorted guitar tone 94'-'96 is one of the greatest tones of all time

u2 aren't worth loathing to that degree until you get to the 00s

I dwell on Stipe's "I'm an equal opportunity lech" line shared during the Monster promo cycle and how it retrospectively changed R.E.M.'s catalog and my life.

Out of Time remains a special time. Imagine your mainstream blockbuster the album with that second side and "Low" and "Near Wild Heaven" besides.

i encountered 'where the streets have no name' somewhat recently, and what used to sound profound about it was so transparently hollow now... did bono turn into something that spoiled their whole catalog, or was it always there and everyone just bought the chintziness at the time because they needed it?

Pet Shop Boys as usual opened up the song's vistas by queering it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt2j79pca7c

haha i didn't know about that

U2 is a hell of a live band

I can't really think of a band that went mainstream on their own terms in a more real way than REM

it's pretty simple to me, U2 (or at least bono) just believed their own hype to the point that it all fell apart. where the streets have no name is a killer song if i step back and think about it against any objective criteria, but i can't have an emotional relationship with it or anything else U2 has done.

r.e.m. maintained just enough healthy skepticism to dodge this effect, at least for me.

I can't really think of a band that went mainstream on their own terms in a more real way than REM

I think 10,000 Maniacs were there with them, though obviously didn’t get as huge.

The funny thing is that R.E.M. were playing Spring Break to drunk college kids from the beginning, they always wanted to be huge, they just dragged the world a few notches over to align w/them for a little while.

We are plainly in the minority.

As far as obnoxious prats go, Bono's a better frontman than most. R.E.M. said at the time they and U2 were the Biggest Bands in the World that while they had mad respect for U2 they had no interest in that kind of pressure and scrutiny; Peter Buck also said they'd rather U2 did this rather than Bon Jovi.

(xpost)

if you listen to early U2 and then early REM, Bono's honking, foghorn vocals are almost the antithesis of Stipe's mumbly, indecipherable vocals. I guess they were both very earnest in a kind of uncool way, even when they both did the ironic glam-rockstar thing in the mid-90s they both managed to be ironic in a sort of earnest way (though REM did it much better imo)

idk achtung baby/zooropa is absolutely u2's peak & the least obnoxious & most compelling bono ever was, while monster was a relative low for rem & characteristically stipe's version of the semi-ironic glam thing is much weirder and more subdued, but it's not really him at his best

ehhh disagree

this is doubling back but i actually think what works about the Monster and NAIHF "rock" songs is that most of them are not actually "rock" songs and maybe not even trying to be. yeah they have loud guitars, sometimes with a wall of tremolo effect and stuff... but they're almost being used more like the strings on Automatic, for a blanket of atmosphere. this is a band whose origins were playing frantic sweaty college art kid dance parties; they definitely know how to play energetic, propulsive, nimble rock music. but i really think they weren't interested in that by the 90s. instead they were making loud, electric chamber music.

obviously there's all the talk of putting down the mandolins and breaking back out the guitars and all, but i still think that shift is there. and it's maybe why the gritty rock textures on NAIHF feel of a piece with the rest of the record, for me. or maybe Buck (and Berry?) really were trying to rock, but had gotten bored of their punk and new wave records, and wanted to be in an imaginary 70s glam arena band, idk.

i like achtung and zooropa and especially passengers but bono’s “baby’s first irony” act is the worst thing about them

i know wishing u2 had a less godawful lyricist is missing the point of u2 yet

dc otm

Bono's lyrics on AB and Zooropa are best-ever, though. He never tried again.

but they're almost being used more like the strings on Automatic

I think Star Me Kitten is the song on Automatic that sounds most like a pointer towards Monster despite being one of the least rocking things on the album, with the gauzy wall of sound and the sexual frankness

I definitely feel like the reason Monster works so well is the production/sound of the thing, it's not the same at all as New Adventures In Hi-Fi 'live in the studio'/recorded at soundchecks thing - Monster reminds me of a bit in the Simon Reynolds Glam Rock book where he talks about glam sounding ragged and rough-hewn but not in a rootsy, naturalistic way, in an artificial plastic way Live versions of Monster songs usually sound a little underwhelming to me, the same with those remixes on the re-release that made them sound more like trad REM songs. I feel the same way about The Wake-Up Bomb, it could have sounded great on Monster but the New Adventures version kind of falls flat

Bono's lyrics on AB and Zooropa are best-ever, though. He never tried again.

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, November 4, 2021 6:35 AM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

they're his best. grading on a curve

I think Mumur's arrangements & orchestration of the instruments (that may be the same thing) are what makes it timeless. Reckoning and Fables are both a little more straightforward "rock band" albums where Murmur reminds me of the first two Gang of Four records, where the instruments and vocals are kind of all going off in different directions sometimes while still maintaining cohesion.

Think about the first minute or so of Pilgramage (or heck the last minute or so) there's nothing even close to that on the next two

That's a sharp way of putting the Go4 influence in context. Also: bass lines! The only other contemporaneous Amerindie band with comparable ones is The Minutemen.

Monster makes me imagine introverted teenage Michael Stipe in the 70s living out his fantasies and desires through these sexually ambiguous glam rock records, and this is how they bridge the gap between mumbly early REM and the fact that they were now literally the biggest band in the world, pretending to be a rock star while also being a literal rock star - I love the way it's exhibitionist and introverted at the same time, it reminds me of Morrissey with the focus on the idolizer imagining themselves as the idol or maybe becoming the idol.

"Finest Worksong" is the height of Go4 worship, so great

Also the song title is very Minutemen

ah yes bass lines. Mike Mills is so underrated in that band. as is Bill

the three four descending bass notes right before Stipe starts singing Worksong are *so Mike Watt*

The feedback at the start of the third verse of New Test Leper is my shit.

soref post upthread (re: Monster) very interesting & OTM

yeah great post soref! i like The Wake-Up Bomb as-is, but would definitely be interested in a more artifical, shiny, Monster-type version of it. lyrically it feels VERY appropriate for that album as well.

https://i.imgur.com/3kgJcTN.png

still wish Lady Gaga had gone with my "climb atop David Howell Evans's shoulders shrieking 'I'm on The Edge!'" music video treatment

I think I also just find something off-putting about Wake-Up Bomb's positioning on the album as the second track after How The West Was Won, although they do something similar with the first two tracks on Up - slow, low key, atypical opening song with Airportman, then swaggering suggestive rock song with Lotus. I think Lotus was the last time they did anything in the same style as Monster? I'm not that familiar with the last two albums so maybe I'm forgetting something on one of them.

and think it really works with those two tracks on Up, so idk why it doesn't quite come off for me on New Adventures

zach i'm stealing that for the memes thread.

up fucking rules.

hmm

just got the vinyl, playing it now

WOW, they did such an amazing job on this, hats off to Kevin Gray who remastered and cut the vinyl

modern vinyl can be such a crapshoot, but I tell ya what, when they hit it out of the park nowadays it's as good as vinyl has ever sounded. this sounds huge and i'm noticing little things in the mix i never heard. dead quiet, no bullshit black vinyl, high quality plastic sleeves, A+

especially noticeable during the quieter stuff, new test leper really blew me away

anyway if you've been thinking about the vinyl i would definitely pull the trigger on this. on the bad and hated hoffman boards, praise for the new pressing/master seems almost universal which is rare

thanks for the heads up! buying now

Listened to this quite a bit during my final year of high school in 1997. Returning to it today, it's definitely patchy, but that said, Electrolite could be one of their best songs. I'd completely forgotten about it.

wow, did not realize the original had become one of those $200 records for some reason. tempted to shine mine up, sell it off, and grab the new one, but it's not really how i relate to my stuff.

I fucking love this record.

ty for the nudge ums, i hedged and bought the package with both the vinyl and cds