Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question

still bullshit Doug Yule isn't there

I double-checked the HOF site and they don't even include Nico (who did less, but the rest of the band seems to frequently treat her as a former member elsewhere).

Even though Yule wasn't in the reunion (despite at least Sterling and Cale wanting him to join in), this is probably the HOF committee's doing. It was suggested elsewhere that initially the HOF committee was really firm on deciding who gets in and not letting the inductee(s) have any input. It wasn't until the Grateful Dead that they got some firm pushback (the Dead wanted EVERYONE in their history to be inducted, otherwise they weren't going to show up), and though the HOF caved, they were still pretty strict about deciding who gets in for years.

Feel like I read an interesting thing about Steve Miller and his dealings with the HoF, but don't feel like trying to find it right now.

I think Doug wasn't fussed about the HOF, but I guess he'd have gone if he'd been asked.

Would have been interesting if he'd chosen to inform the documentary, maybe not going into the ski-lodge gig era, but giving a better sense of how Reed started sharing vocals and such.

yeah, again, Mick Jagger and Dylan knew (of) them.

I bet Mick has listened to Newsom and Dirty Projectors

it's highly likely it was a Hall of Fame decision, they are famous for arbitrarily cutting out certain members, Pearl Jam and Red Hot Chili Peppers had similar things happen:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/pearl-jam-invite-all-five-drummers-to-rock-hall-induction-ceremony-126591/

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/489094/ex-chili-peppers-guitarist-feels-dishonored-by-rock-hall-snub#:~:text=The%20Hall%20recognized%20only%20three,Hall%20of%20Fame%20Foundation%2C%20told

The origin of the shared vocals thing is kind of interesting. I understand that one reason for it on Loaded was that Lou blew out his voice singing night after night at Max's, maybe there was some similar incident right before recording the third album as well.

I believe Lou thought Doug's voice would sound good on "Candy Says" so he asked him to try singing it.

Was it the HOF or Lou that said Doug shouldn't get in? (My money's on Lou, but I know the HOF pulls stupid shit like that all the time, e.g., "If you wanna be inducted, you can't include ____.")

The obvious thing is to assume Lou was responsible but who knows? Lou, Doug and Mo did some kind live onstage interview thing in 2009, which you can watch below, but I'm sure I read that Lou wasn't exactly friendly to Doug on the night.

https://www.nypl.org/audiovideo/velvet-underground-lou-reed-maureen-%E2%80%98moe%E2%80%99-tucker-doug-yule-david-fricke

Worth noting that with Doug in the band, the Velvets became entirely a Long Island combo.

Just the other day I learned that Moe was born in my neighborhood.

About two years ago I had the local “classic rock” station on while driving home from work. They were announcing upcoming shows, mostly tribute bands at sports bars, and in the middle of it was, “On Saturday Doug Yule will be playing at…” I almost drove off the road. Doug Yule playing at a local bar! What a perfectly under-the-radar thing for him to do!

Come to find out it was someone named Doug Ewell.

Awwwwww

Was Llew Riadh on the next night?

Was that John Cale’s childhood friend?

This was fine.

It got, like the band, steadily more conventional.

Was Llew Riadh on the next night?

Yep, accompanied by Meaux Tuquer.

...and Jean Kale

With Knee Coe?

OK, maybe not...

Let's hear it one more time for Bruce "Bruised Knee" Coe, David Allen's Cherokee-eyed son!

This was fine.
It got, like the band, steadily more conventional.
Music docs will do that, a lotta times, but how would you say the band got more conventional?

oh c'mon man

VU & Nico > WL/WH > 3rd > VU > Loaded is a progression that gets steadily more conventional in every way (I love them all but c'mon)

Loaded is pretty straight-on 1970 Rock Album (a little rootsy, a little jammy)

So be it. Maybe I'd agree if I'd first heard them in the late 80s or 90s, after hearing a lot of bands who'd listened to them. But---I started listening in the 60s, maaan--more in the early 70s, and they never sounded conventional for the times---some familiar elements, but turned around, which continued with the versions on Live in 1969, VU, Another View, several bootlegs, and some excavations on Peel Slowly and See.

How many of you have seen Ken Burn’s Country doc?

Aaaarfh, Ken Burns’s

WL/WH definitely seems weirder to me than the debut, otherwise the progression works

Yeah, it's a good progression. Now, there are a few rawky, jammy things on the complete(?) legit Matrix tapes that seemed dated.

Still want a country duet ov "Pale Blue Eyes."

The VU became more conventional by design. Cale did an interview around 2012 where he stated that he wanted the VU to go in a more abrasive direction and Lou wanted to do prettier songs that were more commercial, and the impasse forced him to leave. (I *think* this was from 2012 because IIRC he also complained about the endless remastering of the catalog in light of the upcoming 45th anniversary box set for the debut album. I think he said "the resolution isn't there" and thought it was pointless to revisit their master tapes.) I think the progression actually works in their favor - it shores up the idea that they knew exactly what they were doing with their earlier avant-garde work because they could make great, timeless commercial music as well.

Also many years ago, I remember an older friend (not from the U.S.) who met up with me and some others straight from an Irish bar in Evanston, and she told me and several others "hey, I was getting a drink at this place when this concert started up, and the guy was really great! His name was John Cale - do you know him?"

xp Yeah, it's kind of the classic progression, isn't it? It would have been weird for them to get more abrasive, IMO. The change-up from WL/WH to LP3 was sort of that iconic "Blow everyone's minds by getting quiet now" move.

The most punk thing is, like, not to be punk at all, man!

WL/WH definitely seems weirder to me than the debut, otherwise the progression works

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.)

yes I was considering this qualifier, I think I agree

and the wild side-long improv stuff e.g. "Chic Mystique", "Nothing Song", "Melody Laughter", etc basically predate the 1st Lp and are way more in drone/La Monte Young territory

btw I LOVED how much LMY-related content was in this

According to that trustworthy source "YouTube commentator", apparently Neil Young is the only other act than the Velvets to play a brand new song at his Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction.

In its own way the third album is the most subversive.

It uses familiar acoustic arrangements to sneak in their midt subversive material.

The documentary should have only been about the recording of "Murder Mystery," of course.

(Perhaps slightly more seriously, I was bummed to not get anything about "The Gift" at least.)

I was just thinking about how the first four Royal Trux albums kind of, very roughly, approximate the stylistic progression of the four VU albums (don’t know why I never realized that before).

Yeah, good progression, but I still don't see what makes them a conventional band, other than conventional in their own terms (like the sneaky acoustic instruments that Alfred mentions): you learn what elements are likely to be involved, but not quite (sometimes at all) what the combination will be. Like those luvstruck souls in the lyrics...

The laidback instrumentation on the third album is also mainly undistorted electric guitars rather than acoustics; the effect is more doo-wop than James Taylor.

I'll buy that but the let's say softer approach makes the likes of "Some Kinda Love" queerer.

My own fave version of that is on Live In 1969---or is it Live 69--with the spoken intro, the slinky cowbell, the build, and of course, La-te-ta-ta-tah..."

Whatta ballad.

i just wanna say, as a Velvets novice this thread has been very informative!

also: wow you guys are nerds lol j/k j/k

Oh, word, it's true. (Also, Loaded's "New Age" starting like a Tennessee Williams-Andy Warhol soap opera, steadily morphing into a non-ironic-seeming Rock Anthem, but stately with it, incl. the big ol/ warm guitar twang, which was a familiar element, but now in a VU state of mind---and then those other verses, maybe other lives, on Live In 1969or whatever it is.

Hey, their biggest fan was an über-nerd, as recently discussed!

My own fave version of that is on _Live In 1969_---or is it _Live 69_--with the spoken intro, the slinky cowbell, the build, and of course, La-te-ta-ta-tah..."

Does anyone know what the supposed intended version of Loaded is supposed to be? I've never found a clear cut answer but there have been two sets of changes over the years.

First they unearthed unedited versions of "Sweet Jane," "Rock & Roll" and I guess two longer versions of "New Age," and then the 45th anniversary box set moved "Head Held High" after "I Found a Reason." I was surprised by the latter, but if you sequence it that way on older editions, you'll noticed that the vocalists all hold a note that would bridge both tracks, except they get faded out and back in again.