Indie Guilt: C/D

haha your neighbour is indie!!

Priceline commercials S-K did as Shatner-Kinney = best thing they evah did

(Because the only way to explain the fury you rightly detect, Gygax, is to think of it in terms of, well, love.)

america = destinys child/missy elliot, vietnam = tortoise, 'war' = ilm

Uh, Ethan, what's with the commercial landmark kick? I fully agree that indie can't pretend it's the center of the universe and all, but like Clarke said, what exactly is 'enough' records?

back when I did listen to indie all the time I was ashamed of it because I thought nobody would understand. Then my freshman year in college I meet this hipster gal from LA who's all about morrisey and also loves Palace and it freaks me out because Will Oldham was supposta be my special thing and I'm thinking "no way you like palace, you're not deep enough and morose enough and..." but of course I don't say it. I think that right about then I stopped listening to indie as much or feeling as ashamed when I did.

Ethan: "war" = nu-ilm.

the persecution complex is what keeps "indie" alive. If it's not jocks, it's squares. if it's not the scene getting too much attention, it's the scene not getting enough attention. if it's not too few kids at the shows, it's too many kids at the shows. it's the radio stations, it's the record labels, it's the sell-outs, it's commercials, it's drugs n booze ... something's always out to get poor widdle baby pisspants indie. now it's ILM. whinge whinge whinge. who cares?

group hug!! (except ethan => he is alien hiphop ew)

can you imagine destinys child being worried about selling too many records?? (this is why they are good)

what makes indie an object to be deplored any more than anything?

How else are the conforming non-conformists going to distance themselves from their identical brethern? In their quest to be different, they end up with the same clothing, the same piercings, the same tattoos, and the same convoluted take on individuality. So as a reaction to that, they need a common enemy, something to despise (because despising Top 40 would mean you care enough about Top 40 to acknowledge its existence when apathy is all the rage, punny enough).

The elitests deplore indie because it's what they know best, it's what they once enjoyed and now find unacceptable because it doesn't meet their fleeting, mercurial expectations. Instead of risking ridicule for being unlike their decidedly biased peers, they decide it's acceptable to trash the genre they once supported because it couldn't possibly be like it was in the good ol' days. But as they continue to disassociate themselves from the actual music in favor of critiquing the entire genre, their opinion becomes increasingly moot.

And anyone under the age of 20 shouldn't be talking about "the kids."

(Because the only way to explain the fury you rightly detect, Gygax, is to think of it in terms of, well, love.) -- Tom ([email protected]), May 29, 2002.

so, indie would be like your middle school girl or boy friend...while these other tastes are more developed relationships you had as you got older?

not really indie's lack of depth, but your understanding of music/love of a genre as you matured as a music lover?

if that's what you're going on, that's probably the best explanation offered so far, in my humble opinion.

m.

namdam: you prefer that only people over 40 talk about the kids?

that's ok with me, kids

you like indie music -> you probably have to support the idea that indie music is 'better' than the rest of that awful etc etc -> you do while realizing that this is probably not true -> this conflicts with indie's egalitarianism (as it is) and you make cursory efforts to show that you're not a closed-minded exclusionist by buying tribe called quest and soul jazz cds -> indie guilt!

Mark S,

I haven't had time to beat any wives lately because I've been so busy throwing away all of my records with the same number of songs on each side.

Cheers.

i think slayer are really good.

Tom, my hasty answer (to be elaborated on later) is that XXXXXXX (god I actually hit back on the browser and counted the Xs, what a lamo) is something like: complete fulfillment and satisfaction of your "musical needs" (a horrendous term, needs revising). When you first get into indie, it seems to give this to you - or, perhaps more appropriately, you let it give it to you. But later on, things change, and maybe indie just doesn't cut it for you anymore. I need to leave, too, but I will write more about this later. It deserves its own thread.

Sterling,

I prefer that the kids not talk about "the kids" because they are, in fact, "the kids." People over 40 can do whatever the hell they want.

Cheers.

b-but why did you buy them in the first place? can't you COUNT!?

i stand by my maximumrocknroll joke.

(that was to jel)

I like indie. I don't feel guilty. Maybe I'm lying to myself! I like pop music too. I don't really feel guilty about that either. I like old timey country music. I'm obviously compenstating here for liking indie and pop music guilt here.

Josh, that was brill. It does sort of feel like, when you get into indie, that you must be monogamous to it - well, this is the sort of music I like now, and this is *all* I like... and I'm happy with it, really, I am! But I'm not like a puritan or anything, I mean, my wife and I try a lot of crazy positions and buy a lot of dub!

THE ANSWER IS YES

an·he·do·ni·a
Pronunciation Key (ahn-hee-donh-dn-ah)
n.
The absence of pleasure or the ability to experience it.

All this hand-wringing about indie is funny. I buy a whack of records each year and some are indie and some are not. It doesn't even consciously enter into my mind what fuckin' label a record is on anymore. It's just not worth the brainwaves.

Jess that was so emo.

It IS possible to like both Sleater-Kinney and Missy Elliott, right? I mean, so long as you take them as musical entities and not some overblown sociopolitical signifiers and overall more or less avoid acting like this guy?

i·ro·ny
Pronunciation Key (r-n, r-)
n. pl. i·ro·nies

The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit1.

Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: “Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated” (Richard Kain).
An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic.

"Atheism is the conventional way to be unconvential". Or is it hating indie? Ah....

in·die
Pronunciation Key (nd)
n. Informal
One, such as a studio or producer, that is unaffiliated with a larger or more commercial organization.
An artistic work produced by an independent company or group: “ [His film] showed that indies could... take in millions at the box office” (Liesl Schillinger).

adj.
Of, relating to, or being an indie: an album of indie rock; an indie film company.

you just slipped up one on yr pronunciation key, jess

Atheism is GRATE.

all definitions provided by the fine people at dictionary.com, used for purposes historical or satirical.

(how does the irony pronunciation work? and does the fact that it doesn't prove that irony doesn't exist - as ironically enuff, it in fact doesn't...)

Do they still make indie music?

and bringing it all back home:

guilt:
Remorseful awareness of having done something wrong.
Self-reproach for supposed inadequacy or wrongdoing.

Why the guilt, ex-indie rockers? new answers please.

Mark S,

b-but why did you buy them in the first place? can't you COUNT!?

If sequencing or song placement is the measure by which you determine the quality of a record, then I am very pleased indeed that we have little in common with regard to taste in music.

I know it must be endlessly rewarding to develop such a carefully calculated theory about "Symmetric Tracks Per Side" (or STPS as "the kids" are calling it), but the records sound so much better when you actually take them out of the sleeves and play them once in a while. I know, then it won't be MINT anymore, but you could always eBay it.

Oh, and I love your answer to the original question. Very direct.

Cheers.

I don't think people are saying they feel guilty about once having been into 'indie' music. More acknowledging that they once were and aren't anymore...which, is like fair enough. Obviously, there are jokes about indie here and there on ILM, but if you like 'indie' then why be so defensive? It's not like ILM is stopping people from buying indie.

(oh God, I sound stupid when I try to make a sensible point )

haha jess maybe you should post that irony definition again

OOOH! I'm not being defensive at all! it's hard to maintain the original question and precepts through this entire thread.

case in point: In the 1996 thread, someone mentioned defending any year (with rare exception) with "indie" records was *gasp* "precarious" (interesting how these words are used usually by people who quote dictionary definitions O_o), yet this person is clearly an indie product (as tackily (but necessarily as to make this particular point) referenced above). there is a definite anti-indie backlash in this forum, usually by those who possibly embraced it harder than others. i singled one person out unfairly, but this person is far from being the lone voice of indie guilt on ILM.

i'm looking to answer the question, not attack any online persona... Esp, not any wigga! Some of my best friends are wiggaz. w3rd y0! I think Josh's answer is most OTM so far.

young mc taught jess to love music you fool

jess is the lone voice of giant lettuceheads on ilm

"Obviously, there are jokes about indie here and there on ILM, but if you like 'indie' then why be so defensive?"

"Do not feed the troll."

if you like anything, then why be so defensive?

josh i think youre forgetting someone

I had the same reaction as ethan when I saw that list... like... a buncha indie albums makes a good year for music? C'mon, what was happening in the charts, with the stuff that most people were listening to?

Indiephilia!

I do think ILM sometimes protests too much about indie e.g. all the connections and references to Pitchfork. I think FT/NYLPM/ILM are perhaps more reactionary then they'd like to admit. (But that's a small strike against, and easily worth swallowing for what the whole offers.)

ppl only convince themselves they "like" indie because they're so embarrassed abt the daft chartpop they genuinely loved as kids