Have y'all seen him in "The Art of Sampling"? Has he made a similar mea culpa with the dumbass opinions he made there?
I love the editing in there where he's complaining that sampling requires no talent or ability to play an instrument and it cuts to Shock G playing the piano.
― joygoat, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 19:00 (two years ago) link
I love the editing in there where he's complaining that sampling requires no talent or ability to play an instrument and it cuts to Shock G Piano Man playing the piano.
― joygoat, Wednesday, October 13, 2021 3:00 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 19:08 (two years ago) link
xps holy shit at that compilation track
― assert (matttkkkk), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 19:27 (two years ago) link
This is still funny (and the track in question is great).
https://pitchfork.com/news/61410-steve-albini-e-mail-about-how-much-he-hates-dance-music-turned-into-billboard-advertisement/
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 21:14 (two years ago) link
I had the same 'ewwww dance music' attitude as Albini when I was 16 and going to ska-punk shows every weekend, hearing it from a 60 year old guy who's been involved in recording for forty years just seems extra pathetic.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 21:16 (two years ago) link
I am absolutely the wrong audience for this kind of music. I've always detested mechanized dance music, its stupid simplicity, the clubs where it was played, the people who went to those clubs, the drugs they took, the shit they liked to talk about, the clothes they wore, the battles they fought amongst each other...
Bob Weston is a big dance music fan. I wonder if he has ever tried to entice Steve out to a night of dancing?
― stirmonster, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 21:34 (two years ago) link
Steve Albini dances to Abba
― Pfunkboy AKA (Oor Neechy), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 21:40 (two years ago) link
There’s something about the way he maps out these concepts of “war” and “this music is the enemy of what I believe in” that is just ridiculously OTT, as if those making such music are equally invested in dogma and making taste some sort of aesthetic battleground where everyone wants to tell everyone else why this or that music is the worse thing ever, and here’s why (at length)
His whole thing of “it’s not for me, but here’s 50 reasons why I absolutely hate it and consider it the grossest thing possible” is zzzz
“The electronic music I liked was radical and different”….ok Steve
― Buckfast in America (Master of Treacle), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 21:42 (two years ago) link
Big Black and "Work That Mutha Fucker" are very close on a continuum to me.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 21:51 (two years ago) link
Same!
“The electronic music I liked was radical and different”….ok Steve - this is / was such a common attitude back in the day. i had SO many friends who just couldn't make the leap when House music arrived, perhaps because it was popular and also as they felt it wasn't radical. It was of course way more radical than a lot of electronic music they were into, and a lot of electronic music they loved then went down a cul de sac of no return.
― stirmonster, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:07 (two years ago) link
This will sound stupid and reductive, and I’m not defining SA or haters of dance music, but:
I wonder how much of this just comes down to “I don’t like to dance and as such this music is confusing to me”
(Note: I do not like to dance and do enjoy some electronic/dance music)
― Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:18 (two years ago) link
Defending, not defining
I wonder how much of this just comes down to “I don’t like to dance and as such this music is confusing to me”This was exactly the line Chicago radio dj Steve Dahl used in his vicious anti-disco rants in 1979, which culminated in the Disco Demolition record burning/riot at a White Sox game.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:27 (two years ago) link
the world has never recovered
― beard papa, Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:32 (two years ago) link
This was definitely an obstacle for me until I bought a drum machine and started trying to make electronic music - no one can see you dance poorly to your own 808.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:36 (two years ago) link
You’ll dance to anything, milo
― Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:38 (two years ago) link
I kid. A Dead Milkmen lyric
― Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:39 (two years ago) link
_I wonder how much of this just comes down to “I don’t like to dance and as such this music is confusing to me”_This was definitely an obstacle for me until I bought a drum machine and started trying to make electronic music - no one can see you dance poorly to your own 808.
― And of course the worms! (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 22:57 (two years ago) link
i’d respect him a lot more if he just proactively did some ‘splaining rather than (condescendingly) being charmed by people outing him.
― j.o.h.n. in evanston (john. a resident of chicago.), Wednesday, 13 October 2021 23:08 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLr5EXyoQCE
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 14 October 2021 05:16 (two years ago) link
_I am absolutely the wrong audience for this kind of music. I've always detested mechanized dance music, its stupid simplicity, the clubs where it was played, the people who went to those clubs, the drugs they took, the shit they liked to talk about, the clothes they wore, the battles they fought amongst each other..._
― circa1916, Thursday, 14 October 2021 06:09 (two years ago) link
Oh sorry, I just traced the comment back to the song in question. Lmao, Steve.
― circa1916, Thursday, 14 October 2021 06:52 (two years ago) link
I always wondered about that last bit in particular "the battles they fought amongst each other", as opposed to the complete lack of conflict and backbiting in indie rock circles?
― only built 4 lynx africa (Noel Emits), Thursday, 14 October 2021 08:25 (two years ago) link
my favorite part of that has always been his reference to Xenakis before lamenting "When that scene and those people got co-opted by dance/club music I felt like we'd lost a war." yeah, it was really sad when dance music co-opted the Xenakis scene. we all shed a tear.
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, 14 October 2021 12:25 (two years ago) link
Guy’s eternally narrow view of what counts as “worthy” music is kinda sad at his age. I have to imagine some great affront happened to him at a dance club that he will never, ever forget.I don’t think his public reckonings with wokeness have been bad though on the whole. Been unusually insightful and honest when it comes to these things kinds of things, particularly for someone from that space and age. He was from birth a cantankerous old man and he’ll forever just Not Get certain things, but I don’t doubt he’s trying.
― circa1916, Thursday, 14 October 2021 13:18 (two years ago) link
I'm not Captain Save a House but I actually remember Powell sounding closer to the noisy artists that Albini was praising than the 'stupid simplistic' club music he probably had in mind. I imagine he didn't actually listen.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 14 October 2021 13:21 (two years ago) link
I did discover Powell bc of this incident so there's that.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Thursday, 14 October 2021 13:26 (two years ago) link
― circa1916, Thursday, 14 October 2021 13:28 (two years ago) link
xpostCaptain Save A House heh. I’d be fine if I never had to listen to that track Insomnia again (Powell has his moments tho). But Albini was name checking early Cabaret Voltaire while poo-pooing the song? It sounds quite similar. That whole Odd Future thing tho, my god. Maybe there’s some grey area about his intent there but that’s a pretty fucked up hill to die on in 2021.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 14 October 2021 13:50 (two years ago) link
Also Circa1916 otm and yes Al Jourgenson may well have turned more than a few peeps away from electronic music. Big Black opened my ears to Ministry tho so screw ‘em both.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 14 October 2021 13:53 (two years ago) link
That’s funny to me as I don’t think there is a huge gap between Big Black and Revolting Cocks and post-Twitch Ministry!
― And of course the worms! (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 14 October 2021 14:21 (two years ago) link
Narcissism of small differences etc.
― St. Twel'mo, or the Cuneiform Cyclopedist of Chattanooga (President Keyes), Thursday, 14 October 2021 14:27 (two years ago) link
Well yea I mean “stigmata” was like a flip of “racer x”
In Chris Connelly’s book he puts it the other way — says Steve albini’s “piously heterosexual” indie rock threw down the gauntlet in a way that had a trickle down effect on jourgensen that lasted for years (sort of, it seems to me, implying albini made jourgensen kind of insecure and it explains his push toward metal)
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Thursday, 14 October 2021 16:30 (two years ago) link
A journalist took Albini's Twitter declaration "I'm overdue for a discussion about my role in inspiring 'edgelord' shit" and asked him for an interview. The results are worth a read.
I admit that I was deaf to a lot of women’s issues at the time, and that’s on me. Within our circles, within the music scene, within the musical underground, a lot of cultural problems were deemed already solved — meaning, you didn’t care if your friends were queer. Of course women had an equal place, an equal role to play in our circles. The music scene was broadly inclusive. So for us, we felt like those problems had been solved. And that was an ignorant perception. That’s the way a lot of straight white guys think of the world — they think that it requires an active hatred on your part to be prejudiced, bigoted or to be a participant in white supremacy. The notion is that if you’re not actively doing something to oppress somebody, then you’re not part of the problem. As opposed to quietly enjoying all of the privilege that’s been bestowed on you by generations of this dominance. ...In our circles, nothing was off limits. So, it took a while for me to appreciate that using abusive language in a joking fashion was still using abusive language. And it was genuinely shocking when I realized that there were people in the music underground who weren’t playing when they were using language like that and who weren’t kindred spirits. They were, in fact, awful, and only masquerading as intellectuals. That was one of many wake-up moments....That was the fundamental failure of my perception. It’s been a process of enlightenment for me to realize and accept that my very status as a white guy in America is the product of institutional prejudices, that I’ve enjoyed the benefits of them, passively and actively. And I’m responsible for accepting my role in the patriarchy, and in white supremacy, and in the subjugation and abuse of minorities of all kinds....I’m less concerned than I was 30 years ago about trying to make an experience extreme. Specifically regarding the anti-woke comics today, the uncomfortable truths that they’re expressing are genuinely, almost exclusively, childish restatements of the status quo. Or they’re pining for sustaining the status quo that they feel is threatened somehow. I can’t think of a more tragic or trivial comic premise than: Things should stay the way they are. That’s the absence of creativity — it’s a void rather than a creative notion. It’s fundamentally conservative and anti-progress. And I strain at finding humor in the idea that things should not get better. I wish that I knew how serious a threat fascism was in this country. At that time [the 1980s under Reagan], there was a phone-in hotline for the America First committee that you could call; they were on the South Side of Chicago, and it would play a racist diatribe as the phone message. Everyone in our circle was dismissive of those as being these ridiculous country bumpkins. There was a joke made about the Illinois Nazis in The Blues Brothers. That’s how we all perceived them — as this insignificant, unimportant little joke. I wish that I knew then that authoritarianism in general and fascism specifically were going to become commonplace as an ideology.
That’s the way a lot of straight white guys think of the world — they think that it requires an active hatred on your part to be prejudiced, bigoted or to be a participant in white supremacy. The notion is that if you’re not actively doing something to oppress somebody, then you’re not part of the problem. As opposed to quietly enjoying all of the privilege that’s been bestowed on you by generations of this dominance.
...
In our circles, nothing was off limits. So, it took a while for me to appreciate that using abusive language in a joking fashion was still using abusive language. And it was genuinely shocking when I realized that there were people in the music underground who weren’t playing when they were using language like that and who weren’t kindred spirits. They were, in fact, awful, and only masquerading as intellectuals. That was one of many wake-up moments.
That was the fundamental failure of my perception. It’s been a process of enlightenment for me to realize and accept that my very status as a white guy in America is the product of institutional prejudices, that I’ve enjoyed the benefits of them, passively and actively. And I’m responsible for accepting my role in the patriarchy, and in white supremacy, and in the subjugation and abuse of minorities of all kinds.
I’m less concerned than I was 30 years ago about trying to make an experience extreme. Specifically regarding the anti-woke comics today, the uncomfortable truths that they’re expressing are genuinely, almost exclusively, childish restatements of the status quo. Or they’re pining for sustaining the status quo that they feel is threatened somehow. I can’t think of a more tragic or trivial comic premise than: Things should stay the way they are. That’s the absence of creativity — it’s a void rather than a creative notion. It’s fundamentally conservative and anti-progress. And I strain at finding humor in the idea that things should not get better.
I wish that I knew how serious a threat fascism was in this country. At that time [the 1980s under Reagan], there was a phone-in hotline for the America First committee that you could call; they were on the South Side of Chicago, and it would play a racist diatribe as the phone message. Everyone in our circle was dismissive of those as being these ridiculous country bumpkins. There was a joke made about the Illinois Nazis in The Blues Brothers. That’s how we all perceived them — as this insignificant, unimportant little joke. I wish that I knew then that authoritarianism in general and fascism specifically were going to become commonplace as an ideology.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 8 November 2021 21:32 (two years ago) link
That was interesting, thanks.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 8 November 2021 22:49 (two years ago) link
Seconded
― Exploding Plastic Bertrand (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 8 November 2021 22:52 (two years ago) link
thirded.
― stirmonster, Tuesday, 9 November 2021 00:24 (two years ago) link
and i'm sure there may be some skepticism but in this year of lowered expectations, nice to at least see someone with a problematic past not revert to the "uh oh cancel culture, folks!" response
― Cool Im An Situation (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 00:26 (two years ago) link
he has been working to redeem his past for a long time.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-i-havent-had-a-conventional-christmas-in-20-years_b_8614568
also supporting women. he took my ex wife on the road with shellac as tour support on a uk tour a few years back. she was more or less completely unknown and it was a life changing experience for her.
― stirmonster, Tuesday, 9 November 2021 00:37 (two years ago) link
that's great!
― Cool Im An Situation (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 00:38 (two years ago) link
That's a really good interview, he's obviously thought about all of this a lot and seems very sincere.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 15:55 (two years ago) link
Good on him, seriously.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 15:57 (two years ago) link
Yeah, a lot of the things he said are things I've been thinking about lately, especially with regards to some of my older friends who are late Gen X and were relatively open-minded people, even activists in their younger days, but still did all the "edgelordy" bantery jokes because they could, and are now floundering when presented with more modern-day attitudes, even rebelling against them in their middle ages; truly believing we're becoming a society of snowflakes who can't take a joke etc etc...
I don't think this is necessarily a case of becoming more conservative as they get older. I think they see themselves as continuing along the righteous path they've always been on, even the path has curved a little, i.e. "social justice is the oppressive force, the same kind of societal indoctrination I used to fight against in the eighties and nineties when the censors were trying to ban video nasties and sex scenes and slap stickers on hip-hop and metal albums" etc.
But these are not the same things. The Mary Whitehouses of this world were trying to protect some sort of old fashioned, almost Victorian values of "decency". Gen X were largely about rebelling against such stuffy, repressive ideals most likely enforced by their parents. It was a dutiful countercultural signifier to be shocking, to break these taboos, to be "authentic" without sugar-coating or genuflecting to notions of decency.
But Albini is absolutely right: You can only do this from a point of privilege. Ironically spouting racist words, making rape jokes, or just generally being a provocative edgy so-and-so is only something people do if they're naive and sheltered enough not to have considered the real effects and implications of what they're saying. And to say "relax, it's just a joke" compounds that.
― Urbandn hope all ye who enter here (dog latin), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 17:25 (two years ago) link
Gen X were largely about rebelling against such stuffy, repressive ideals most likely enforced by their parents. It was a dutiful countercultural signifier to be shocking, to break these taboos, to be "authentic" without sugar-coating or genuflecting to notions of decency.
^Good post – but as someone who never understood the "intentionally being a dick" impulse (or, thankfully, ever really encountered ppl like that), I'm still not sure this explains it? Weren't many parents of Gen X open-minded types who were young in the Sixties?
― juristic person (morrisp), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 18:07 (two years ago) link
Gen X parents were older than that generally
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 18:13 (two years ago) link
Which isn't to say the Boomer parent/Millennial kid pipeline doesn't have its own set of problems
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 18:14 (two years ago) link
Well yeah
― Urbandn hope all ye who enter here (dog latin), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 18:48 (two years ago) link
I appreciated this.
― Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 18:52 (two years ago) link
I don't think the Gen X thing I mentioned was supposed to be thought of as "intentionally being a dick" rather than a revolt against ingrained attitudes of which perhaps their parents were the last to defend. The whole slacker ethos was in part political: deliberately dropping out of society, turning one's back on the stuffy, clean-cut mores and values of the earlier part of the century: "Fuck you I won't do what you tell me" etc. Unfortunately that gets unpacked and interpreted a number of ways, so yes, it often did boil down to a lot of intentional dickishness, in the same way as "Fuck you I won't do what you tell me" eventually became batoned over the years into "Everything is fucked, everything is fucked/All I wanna do is break stuff" (although that's more of an early millennial anthem but I hope you get my train of thought)
― Urbandn hope all ye who enter here (dog latin), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 18:58 (two years ago) link
Yeah I hear you. I guess I'm young enough (late Gen X / straddling the Millennial line) that I've never really understood or related to that older Gen X slacker/rebellion ethos.
― juristic person (morrisp), Tuesday, 9 November 2021 19:01 (two years ago) link