Elvis Costello: Classic or Dud

Thanks Tim. I don't think I would have nominated any of those in my LPs of the 1980s, but I'm happy to see EC's work on them recognised - and 3 different genres? (Ska, New Wave, folk?)

Poster birdistheword wrote:

Those were all songs meant for other people, and you can see how they were tailored for the people they were written for, but I think they work better as Elvis Costello recordings. I think Joyce Millman nails it: "Costello's vision of his idols, his ideas of what his idols represent (or ought to), is often more complicated than their own view of themselves." When someone else does a better job, it's usually because Costello can't get a grasp of the song himself (like "Girls Talk," which he gave away partly because he never recorded it himself in a satisfactory way). But I don't think there are many covers that do a better job than his original recordings because his songs end up feeling too idiosyncratic and too personal to be re-interpreted easily by anyone else.

The quotation in the middle here is amusingly / poignantly very reminiscent of the time that EC wrote a (very good) song for Roger McGuinn, and (McGuinn said) sent it to him with a note saying "Sing this in the style of the Byrds' session cover of 'Positively 4th Street' crossed with the 1970 bootlegged outtake version of 'Chestnut Mare'", or the like. He had a more intensive and obsessive vision of McGuinn's past than McGuinn did.

Are you all talking about a person called Bill Wyman who is not the lecherous veteran bass player Bill Wyman?

― the pinefox, Wednesday, 1 September 2021 09:40 (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yep, same name, different person.

There's a whole bunch of covers done better than EC himself. Wyatt, Orbison, Edmunds, corps de blimey the list goes on...

I think "The Comedians" was rewritten.

Yeah, but still.

Also, "I love you when you sleep" Tracie Young, became "Joe Porterhouse" but.

Perhaps uniquely, I don't prefer Robert Wyatt's version to EC's.

I'm glad someone else agrees. I'm scared of sharing that position.

(and I like Wyatt's version)

Oddly enough I am very used to hearing people say they prefer the Costello version. (This may be because when I talk about Ec it’s usually with the Pinefox). I do not prefer the Costello version.

I don't have a preference, Wyatt and Costello's versions of "Shipbuilding" are both great. I already mentioned "Girls Talk" - Costello never recorded it in a satisfactory manner so he made the right call in giving it to Edmunds & Rockpile. I like Orbison's version of the rewritten "The Comedians," but plenty of people have knocked it for being self-parody. In terms of other favorite covers, Nick Lowe's "Indoor Fireworks" and Chet Baker's "Almost Blue" are great, but I wouldn't say they were better or inferior to Costello's. Allison Krauss's "The Scarlet Tide" is probably better - FWIW, her version was the 'original' version.

Forgot, "The Lovers That Never Were" - Costello wrote about this in is his book. McCartney eventually recorded it for Off the Ground (not a very good album), but Costello always preferred their original 1987 demo and hoped it would see release. It's possible he knew that was already in consideration for an upcoming box set given the way he expressed that in his book, and fortunately it was - both in the original recording and this new mix by Geoff Emerick, which is probably more suitable for release if they wanted to use it on an actual album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7fjjZ5iFpk

I like it, and I saw Costello perform it live. He only did it for like a week because of that box set, and it was actually pretty awesome - I don't think many in the crowd knew it, but everyone around me listened attentively and went nuts after it was over.

Oddly enough I am very used to hearing people say they prefer the Costello version. (This may be because when I talk about Ec it’s usually with the Pinefox).

This is hilarious.

I like Orbison's version of the rewritten "The Comedians," but plenty of people have knocked it for being self-parody. I

Christgau. And he's wrong. Orbison always skirted self-parody: it's his essence.

Roy wasn't scared of melodrama and often that's on the cusp of bathos

God knows why (other than possibly being horrified by The Nameless One when I was 12 and the idea that it was perhaps tossed off) I slept on Now Ain't The Time For Your Tears until a few years ago. I now can't imagine what goes through the heads of the many detractors (including Elvis himself) when they play it - to me, it's essentially a companion album to Brutal Youth, i.e. Elvis in full sail

Is that the Wendy James? It's really good

Agreed.

Agree with PaulMTA.

Celebrate it all!

Loved how that record referred to The Clash as historical figures though they had also been EC's direct contemporaries / colleagues. (A chapter of his memoir begins with them.)

And 'London's Brillant' such an easy slide off the more complex 'London's Brilliant Parade'.

this is great singing in my opinion. he's not over-singing. pitch control, vibrato, phrasing all great. perfectly embedded in the arrangement. i'm guessing he gets voice lessons from his wife?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVMPdFz43b0

Tbh I jumped right off the bus when Spike came out but I'm aware there's stuff after it that I either know and like or like or would like if I listened to it

What put me off about Spike and dissuaded me from listening to the subsequent records was listening to 15 dense, wordy songs to find 4 pretty good ones.

otm

Hmm, I think there are more than 4 good songs on Spike. Imo, most of them are pretty good, in fact!

I think he's a pretty strong singer, though I get the impression he may have had some vocal training c. The Juliet Letters or Painted From Memory, when he got even more formalist but also as he was getting a little older and needed better control over his singing. As for strong singer, I find it interesting that EC has in interviews still talks about how, yes, strong he is as a singer. As in, sheer force. He claims he can reach the back of a room without a mic, which may still be true. I've certainly seen him do it before, solo and with Nieve.

Amazing, Painted From Memory is almost 25 years old. We're *all* getting old, lol.

haha i'm getting older though. in four years i'll be elvis' age.

The other irritating thing on Spike is this attempted stylistic promiscuity, going from psychedelic to New Orleans to folk to jazz. He'd started that eclecticism as early as Trust, but since I didn't find the songs interesting in themselves, he came across a little like a ham actor trying to dazzle you with his "acting genius", putting on fake noses and wigs.
But I don't hate him! I might have if I had felt compelled to listen to all of his last 30 albums.

Very difficult to come to a consensus on this guy. This last post otm.

this is great singing in my opinion. he's not over-singing. pitch control, vibrato, phrasing all great. perfectly embedded in the arrangement. i'm guessing he gets voice lessons from his wife?

His eclecticism started before Trust, imo. This Year's Model and Armed Forces are outliers in that they are almost genres unto themselves. But then comes Get Happy, which intentionally veers into soul music, as much as it has in common with his previous albums. And Trust is eclectic, but then it's immediately followed by a pioneering foray into ... country music. Even the first album, atypical though it may be, is infused with all sorts of Beatles and Byrds references. Which is to say, he's always been all over the place. The biggest change happens when he loses the Attractions, I think. Suddenly he was privy to all these session guys and other musicians who could more strictly adhere to his stylistic exercises, making it much more pronounced.

A debate could be had I guess as to whether it is anymore convincing or successful than, for example, Joe Jackson.

Sometimes I think everybody runs out of great songs, at least for a while

I think there are some really talented artists that go for such a long stretch of good enough that it overshadows all the previous great stuff. Like, Los Lobos has never put out a bad record, and the one they put out just a couple of weeks ago is pretty good! But no one is talking about it.

I don't think EC has ever run out of great songs; what varies is the filtering process that identifies those songs and excludes the merely good ones. Different forces have acted on his pace of releasing material, how (and by whom) the material is performed and produced, and what side journeys he felt like going on. There is a lot of noise, so locating the signal takes close work.

Impelled by his voracious appetite, his eclecticism, the curiosity of his audience, and shifting market conditions, it is natural that his long and prolific career will appear uneven. The nature of that unevenness will itself vary depending on the observer. Hence everybody's got a different opinion of when he jumped the shark, including those who think he hasn't.

I've gone a lot of places with the dude, and even I thought North was boring af.

Hmm, I think there are more than 4 good songs on Spike. Imo, most of them are pretty good, in fact!

Yeah, I would flip that ratio around - it's a good batch of songs, but he goes a little overboard with the recording, something he seems to suggest himself in his Rhino liner notes.

I should add that I favour people who splattergun and let us hear what they're doing but my old man no longer relevant or informed opinion was EC had a relatively fallow patch between the late 80s and the lateish 90s, at least in terms of his own recordings

And I like say Punch the Clock quite a bit so

I shouldn't have looked back at other EC threads

My thinking has barely budged in the last 16 years, and probably hadn't in the 16 years before that

EC had a relatively fallow patch between the late 80s and the lateish 90s, at least in terms of his own recordings

I like how EC was eclectic. But there's a distinct difference between dilettantism and eclecticism, and I always thought Almost Blue and King of America showed that distinction pretty clearly. When he moved to WB and Universal and made those deals that allowed him a much freer reign, that's when he became more of a dilettante. I kind of block out his side projects, but when I take those in consideration, his later output becomes especially spotty.

From the "jump shark" thread

This Years Model = Read Music/Speak Spanish
― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:27 PM (sixteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

!

But there's a distinct difference between dilettantism and eclecticism, and I always thought Almost Blue and King of America showed that distinction pretty clearly. When he moved to WB and Universal and made those deals that allowed him a much freer reign, that's when he became more of a dilettante.

ILM poster Tim and I admire lots of songs on KING OF AMERICA.

I don't think I recalled that EC had anything to do with FILM STARS DON'T DIE IN LIVERPOOL, but - yes, the film is actually quite good. I find it odd, or a bit hard, to connect this somewhat older ms Grahame to the stunning younger one.

I love the fact that McCartney and McGuinn play on '... this town ...', with MacManus.

And the deliberately awkward ellipses in the title. (Would they in fact make it technically the first, or last, of an alphabetical list of EC songs?)

From The New Book Of Rock Lists (1994):

”I’d rather kill myself…I’m not going to be around to witness my artistic decline.” — Elvis Costello, who was wrong

Pings and Noodles: I too abandoned EC after Spike (and I was a big, obsessive fan). And I just happened to have a Punch the Clock revival and was surprised by how much I liked it. Much of the DNA of Get Happy seems to be in there, even if it is less serious. Actually it's the lack of seriousness on most of Punch the Clock that is so appealing!

Greil Marcus loved Punch the Clock.

I love the fact that McCartney and McGuinn play on '... this town ...', with MacManus.
It's quite a supergroup (even if they separately dubbed their parts)!

Re: King of America, if you drop those two covers and slotted in "King of Confidence" (which Costello nearly chose instead of "Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood"), it might be my favorite Elvis Costello album, or at least tied with This Year's Model.

The beginning of "...This Town..." -- the organ, electric 12-string picking, galumphing drums -- is one of the most exciting moments on a Costello song, better than the song.

Re: King of America, if you drop those two covers and slotted in "King of Confidence" (which Costello nearly chose instead of "Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood"), it might be my favorite Elvis Costello album, or at least tied with This Year's Model.

― birdistheword

"Gliter Gulch," "Eisenhower Blues," and "Poisoned Rose" though.

I'd toss out "Glitter Gulch" too, but some people seem to like it and it always flew by quickly for me. I actually think "Poisoned Rose" is great.

And I did mention "Eisenhower Blues," it's one of the covers!

I've heard some fans say it should've been a double LP but I don't think he had the recordings. The songs maybe, but the leftover recordings feel too skeletal or undeveloped when I slot them in the album proper. (Some of them are demos, so it's no surprise.)

"Glitter Gulch" is the song I skip.

It's his "Lily, Rosemary, and the Jack of Hearts." Which I also skip.

Never mind all that..

I used to own a boot called "50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong", a double lp, various rare tracks and live. I sold it, like you do sometimes.

Anyway, thought about finding it again, but it was either expensive, or blocked. So, I had a scout around for the tracks and found better sources for every track, and the entire gig that was on disc 2.

So,i made up a Cdr copy with the artwork, and damn it's good.