theres more in Gates of Delirium than all 80 minutes of Tales combined
― frogbs, Monday, 30 August 2021 13:35 (two years ago) link
pretentious, esoteric and self-indulgent
Do you mean that these were the complaints of Close to the Edge fans or of rock critics?
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Monday, 30 August 2021 13:52 (two years ago) link
Critics were obviously more hostile than Yes fans, though I'm sure some listeners were put off as well. I prefer Relayer to Close to the Edge, but each of the later songs is denser and more difficult than its analog on the earlier record. Of course, certain Yes fans would have welcomed a triple studio album in 1974!It just amused me while listening to Relayer yesterday that THIS monster was their "retrenchment", "fan-service" record.
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 30 August 2021 14:11 (two years ago) link
One presumable fan put off by the Tales record and tour was Mark Perry, later of Alternative TV: "Then another pivotal thing was Yes at Redding for the 'Tales of Topographic Oceans' (tour). It was a nightmare, sitting in the pouring rain. You're thinking 'what the fuck is this about?'" He probably was not alone.
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 30 August 2021 14:16 (two years ago) link
I almost never listen to Tales but more just because it's comparatively lacking in energy and less memorable melodically, both of which are addressed on Relayer, not because of pretension, esotericism, or self-indulgence.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Monday, 30 August 2021 14:22 (two years ago) link
Maybe I should revisit it. I remember it as sort of an ambient fusion record?
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Monday, 30 August 2021 14:27 (two years ago) link
it kind of just drifts along. I'm not completely convinced it's bad, although it is clearly unfocused, but I rarely have much interest in spending a lot of time with it
― Mr. Cacciatore (Moodles), Monday, 30 August 2021 14:29 (two years ago) link
right, there are some parts on Tales I absolutely love and I feel like a 40 minute edited version of the album would rule (didn't some ilxor actually make that?), even if it still would be nowhere near the surrounding albums. I always go into it thinking I'll discover something but I never do
― frogbs, Monday, 30 August 2021 14:31 (two years ago) link
actually what it reminds me most of is Mike Oldfield, just the way everything tweedles along forever until getting to "the good part". though there's much more structure in what Oldfield does. learning that Tales was basically a Anderson/Howe solo project that was mostly written in one marathon session made it make a lot more sense.
― frogbs, Monday, 30 August 2021 14:34 (two years ago) link
I've got the complete Yes songbook, which probably helped me understand the structure of Tales. Also I'm a huge fan of the first four Oldfield records, so obviously someone with the patience to wait for "the good parts".
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 30 August 2021 14:38 (two years ago) link
I like Oldfield quite a bit. I usually find his compositions really tightly structured. I can appreciate looseness and jamming too, though!
I sometimes try to imagine the actual humans who hear music and need to turn it off because the sound is affecting too much pretension of unearned significance or because they can just hear the artists indulging their own base inclinations.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Monday, 30 August 2021 16:58 (two years ago) link
I don't mean that as a dig on Oldfield, I like a bunch of his stuff too. the big climactic parts don't hit as hard without everything leading up to them. but I'm not sure if that approach really works for Yes.
― frogbs, Monday, 30 August 2021 17:06 (two years ago) link
sund4r, you mean the listeners/critics actually envy the artists for "getting away" with the self-indulgence?
frogbs, I would say the payoff at the end of "The Remembering" is worth the build-up, though Yes definitely take an indirect approach over those 20 minutes.
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 30 August 2021 17:12 (two years ago) link
yeah that bit on "The Remembering" is honestly some of my favorite Yes music ever but every time I hear it all I can think is how amazing it would be if they'd just built a solid 8-minute tune around it
― frogbs, Monday, 30 August 2021 17:19 (two years ago) link
I definitely appreciated the edit of Tales (was it Matt?), it helped me appreciate the album more. I think it has some of their finest moments, a real shame it wasn't better executed
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 30 August 2021 17:26 (two years ago) link
I mean that "pretentiousness" and "self-indulgence" are moral judgments of intentions and processes listeners are often not even privy to as opposed to audible phenomena and when they appear in musical critique, they seem like projections that say little about the work itself. It's not how any non-critic I know hears music and I'm unconvinced it was actually what 70s critics were even hearing and responding to. I can understand disliking something bc you hate the singer's voice or it's too loud or too simple or you get bored by long solos or the composition seems unstructured or the lyrics are overly sentimental or the I-IV-V progression is trite ... - those are all things you can hear.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Monday, 30 August 2021 17:30 (two years ago) link
I assumed that Close To The Edge and the earlier albums were all well received critically?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 30 August 2021 17:33 (two years ago) link
Yeah, they got decent reviews at the time in RS/MM. Christgau was condescending 'but' gave them B- to C-range 'grades' (including Tales). I feel like the reviews in the 1983 RS guide were worse than in the 1979 guide but can't find it? Maybe my beef is more with 80s and 90s critics idk; more of a general bugbear about those critical crutches, which were v common at one time.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Monday, 30 August 2021 17:52 (two years ago) link
when I hear "pretentious" I usually think of ELP, which I think may have earned it due to their frequent "adapting" of classical pieces and the perhaps implicit statement that they were "improving" on those pieces, or they were worthy of covering those composers? tbf I thought that was total bullshit too, ELP were rock as fuck. but I do think that Tales is pretentious in the sense of "we're so good that even our aimless noodling is interesting and worthy of putting on a record", which I guess some of the band didn't agree with
― frogbs, Tuesday, 31 August 2021 01:52 (two years ago) link
ELP went fucking hard, like fucking "Knife-Edge"?
I really didn't like Relayer on a recent listening, something about the production struck me as tinny? Too many effects or something dulling the overall sound gestalt.
Going for the One, however... holy shit what a record
― clouds, Friday, 3 September 2021 04:35 (two years ago) link
Based on the Youtube stream, it seems like the Steven Wilson mix of Relayer would be clearer and more pleasant than the older CD version I have.
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Friday, 3 September 2021 12:03 (two years ago) link
I feel like the reviews in the 1983 RS guide were worse than in the 1979 guide but can't find it?Yep, CTTE and The Yes Album got five stars in the 1979 (red) edition, and no Yes album was awarded less than three stars. The entry was written by one Charley Walters who praises their “varied virtuosity,” calls CTTE “technically brilliant, many-hued and free…most importantly, it rocks,” and says of GFTO, “No new ground is broken…Nonetheless, it’s a more than adequate display.”In the 1983 (blue) edition, no Yes record got more than three stars, and Tales, GFTO, Tormato, Drama, and Yesshows all got one star. Wayne King (whom I know little about, other than that he was a Who fanatic) wrote the entry, starting off with “Classical rockers with hearts of cold…” moving on to GFTO being “less an effective reduction of valid ideas than an admission of total artistic bankruptcy,” and ending with, “Who cared if the final product was now a bland assembly-line concoction? Apparently no one.”So it’s a reversal from the red to blue edition similar to the Doors entries. I dunno how those decisions were made, or by whom (Dave Marsh? John Swenson? Both? Neither?). The only instance I can find of a negative-to-positive reappraisal is the Pere Ubu entries (one star in ‘79, four and five stars in ‘83).
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 3 September 2021 12:12 (two years ago) link
Ah, yeah, thanks. Also found this, which is one I remember reading at the time.
Rating: 2.5 Stars "Pointlessly intricate guitar and bass solos, caterwauling keyboards, quasi-mystical lyrics proclaimed in alien falsetto, acid-dipped album-cover illustrations: this British group wrote the book on art-rock excess...Close to the Edge has its moments, but most of this hotly anticipated follow-up is a monumental snore, a dubious hot-air suite whipped up around a handful of promising song fragments." (Mark Coleman, 1992 RS Album Guide)
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Friday, 3 September 2021 12:45 (two years ago) link
Are there bass solos on that album? On "Siberian Khatru" maybe...?
― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Friday, 3 September 2021 12:46 (two years ago) link
Pointlessly intricate guitar and bass solos, caterwauling keyboards, quasi-mystical lyrics proclaimed in alien falsetto, acid-dipped album-cover illustrations
This makes it sound even better than it actually is!
― john landis as man being smashed into window (uncredited) (Matt #2), Friday, 3 September 2021 12:49 (two years ago) link
The Wilson remix of relayer is better than the unpleasant rhino remaster but the original late 80s cd is even better (just turn up the volume)
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Friday, 3 September 2021 16:41 (two years ago) link
had a dream the new album came out and I was reading a review that said "Yes have done it again". I'm still chuckling trying to figure out what that meant
― frogbs, Saturday, 4 September 2021 04:19 (two years ago) link
It means "they got everybody yessed out again".
― Halfway there but for you, Saturday, 4 September 2021 14:52 (two years ago) link
man the battle section in "Gates of Delirium" is still the craziest fucking thing this band has ever done
― frogbs, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 03:03 (two years ago) link
like even Magma doesn't go that hard
― frogbs, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 03:06 (two years ago) link
i don't at all want you to stop, but i feel like you're https://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=77&threadid=110651#unread -ing yourself
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 03:25 (two years ago) link
dude. i can get yessed out totally sober! this is like yessssssed out
― frogbs, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 03:27 (two years ago) link
<3
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 03:31 (two years ago) link
From the time that Steve Howe joined Yes to when Bill Bruford left the band is pretty much a couple of years. Basically a year after Howe joined the band (May 70), Tony Kaye left and Rick Wakeman joined the band (July 71) then after finishing recording 'Close to the Edge' Bruford left (July 72) to join King Crimson.
The Yes AlbumFragileClose to the Edge
Pretty impressive amount of work done.
― earlnash, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 04:25 (two years ago) link
I would like to formally apologize. upon some reflection I have come to the conclusion that Magma do indeed go that hard. I think what got me is listening to this with the sub on, there are these explosions during that section that rattled the pictures on the walls. I've never actually noticed them before
― frogbs, Thursday, 9 September 2021 00:47 (two years ago) link
One of my favourite bits in the battle sequence is the emotive sequence that occurs at 9.20, and then again at 10.00; it somehow manages to be tender, grandiose and breakneck simultaneously.
Regarding their productivity, they made another three albums of original music between mid-72 and late 74, as well.
― Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 9 September 2021 01:13 (two years ago) link
so I am finally giving Open Your Eyes another listen - it kind of surprises me that this album is universally shit on while Talk is mostly given a pass since they're both quite similar but something about the way the guitars and vocals are produced just irks my brain
it is funny to read some of the reviews complaining about the final track, this kind of "pad out the length of the CD" thing was pretty common in the late 90's, clearly you're not supposed to listen to it every time you play the album. though I suspect most people only listened to it once. I actually dig the surreal vibe, calm nature sounds suddenly punctuated by loud processed vocals, it's like the kind of shit we'd do to pass the time on the N64 when the games had a sound demo mode
by my count this is the 4th Yes album that began life as a different project...does any other band come close?
― frogbs, Monday, 8 November 2021 20:56 (two years ago) link
catching the swirling wind the sailor sees the rim of the landthe eagle's dancing wings create as weather spins out of handgo closer hold the land feel partly no more than grains of sand
yes. . . . YES
― mookieproof, Saturday, 4 December 2021 04:43 (two years ago) link
has anyone here given The Quest a shot? I thought "The Ice Bridge" was a neat lead single, but the rest is uh...pretty boring. not as lethargic as Heaven & Earth but not as hooky either.
― frogbs, Saturday, 18 December 2021 21:13 (two years ago) link
würm imo
― mookieproof, Saturday, 16 April 2022 02:23 (two years ago) link
Alan White has passed :(
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/alan-white-yes-and-john-lennon-drummer-dead-at-72/
― Maresn3st, Thursday, 26 May 2022 17:40 (two years ago) link
Sad to hear this, he seemed to get a lot of criticism for basically not being Bill Bruford but his drumming on Topographic Oceans is one of the best things about that mess. He plays like a demon on Relayer too. RIP!
― ARP Odysséas (Matt #2), Thursday, 26 May 2022 17:43 (two years ago) link
yeah his work on “sound chaser” is outstanding
― in places all over the world, real stuff be happening (voodoo chili), Thursday, 26 May 2022 17:48 (two years ago) link
The Yessongs versions of the Fragile/Close to the Edge songs have giant clanging balls compared to the studio versions, and it's because of White. And he had three days to learn the set list before the tour started!
― but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 26 May 2022 17:48 (two years ago) link
alan white does a pretty good job for a guy who had to learn all these crazy difficult songs with limited-to-zero rehearsals
― covidiot wind, blowin every time you lift your mask (voodoo chili), Friday, October 16, 2020 10:31 AM (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink
what a guy, rip
sound chaser and especially awaken are two of the great prog songs and he played on both
― imago, Thursday, 26 May 2022 17:56 (two years ago) link
played the hell out of them too
yeah I mean I love Bruford too but I thought White's less subtle/more powerful approach worked great
― frogbs, Thursday, 26 May 2022 17:59 (two years ago) link
The Yessongs versions of the Fragile/Close to the Edge songs have giant clanging balls compared to the studio versions, and it's because of White.
― but also fuck you (unperson)
wait is this good? i mean, i know having a flaming gong is good, but i'm not sure if giant clanging balls are good or not.
― Kate (rushomancy), Thursday, 26 May 2022 20:06 (two years ago) link
Perhaps unperson was thinking of those crashing Chinese cymbals at the beginning of "The Ancient"?
When Bruford departed the group, Yes management gave his royalties from Close to the Edge to White, since Bruford would not be promoting the record. In recent years, White returned Bruford's royalties, which was a generous gesture (since, as people mention above, White had a lot of work to do on the tour).
― Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 26 May 2022 20:25 (two years ago) link