Defend the indefensible - Bob Dylan.

Dylan's also been famous for 60 years of his life. It's a shocking claim. There also may be truth to it, which is why at least I'm so concerned about / engaged with the topic. Also, no one here (afaik) has called his accuser a liar. We do not know the accuser's story, we only how it is sketchily presented in the legal brief.

Carry on then

Like I said, just wait for more evidence to be presented. The claim gave very few details and since they don't line up with what's known, obviously there has to be more to get this to trial - so wait for more and go from there. It doesn't help that the lawyers have bad reputations, sure, but let them present their argument first.

FFS, "of course he's guilty, he's an old white guy" is NAGL either

Death to Europe and Bob Dylan.

Have you guys ever wondered why so few women post here anymore?

If so - wonder no longer!

Fuck you for that. What a disingenuous prick you are.

?? I think i’ve been pretty forthright!

In fact I’d call that accusation…. baseless!

I like Dylan enough to privately hope this isn't true, because it's deeply horrible and I hope it didn't happen for reasons selfish and not. But since it obviously *could be* true, I wonder why people engaged in sleuthing this out don't hesitate to leave this trail of posts? On a micro level, won't you feel terrible? On a macro level, he fact that a powerful, famous, and well-liked man has a legion of fans (not just here obvs) immediately on the case trying to disprove the charge without him having to do a thing sends a disturbing message to anyone thinking about coming forward with their own story.

I don't know any departed women posters, so I can't speak to their reasons, but a few have in the past explicitly posted similar sentiments to Tracer

No one here has called the accusation "baseless" (afaik). Why would we hesitate to leave this "trail of posts"? I will feel terrible if it's true, not because I discussed the charge on a board.

personally i feel terrible either way

You guys realize this is not a criminal case where authorities have investigated and decided there is enough evidence for a case, correct? It's a civil claim with a vague but devastating charge, filed by lawyers who have then been up in the press every day. If your position is that the details of the charge should not be discussed out of some sense of decorum, I strongly disagree.

Why would we hesitate to leave this "trail of posts"?

Because it will retroactively make it look like your first instinct was to side with an abuser. I guess that isn't fair, but I'm surprised it doesn't factor into people's behavior nonetheless.

I don't think you can neutrally "discuss" this charge. Or if that's too broad: I think it sends a message that people react to this news by, on their own time, searching for and posting exculpatory evidence.

It's not a "criminal case" but you thought this was a good post to make:

G.E. Smith comments as character witness

― Shallot Shortage 2021 (morrisp), Wednesday, August 18, 2021 1:37 PM (yesterday)

If he had said, "I'm not surprised, Dylan's always kind of been a creep," I would have posted that too.

When accusations about famous people surface in this day & age, they're often followed by others reporting similarly bad experiences. If that doesn't happen here, it doesn't mean there couldn't still truth to the charge. But I'd be more concerned if people *weren't* saying "that doesn't sound like the Bob I know."

Your position is apparently that only the two lawyers who filed the suit are allowed to speak.

i'd like to think that if there was evidence that implicated Dylan, we would be equally willing to post it here

"of course he's guilty, he's an old white guy"

you see it's shit like this

daily mail comment section worthy

old white guy "60s rock star"

i know it's hard when someone's work has meant a lot to you but regardless of the facts in this case is it really so hard to avoid using the exact same little turns of phrase that we have been hearing for years to defend other people whose behaviour is (now) widely acknowledged? that is what set me off initially. and is it so fucking hard to avoid the classic /r/mensrights standby "hey check out this other false accusation"? for fuck's sake

bob dylan's work doesn't mean shit to me fwiw, but your being a sanctimonious cunt to everyone on this board since your very first post does

i don't remember my very first post but my first real "incident" on here was when i had the temerity to suggest that woody allen was what he is, just throwing that out there

how's this for sanctimonious: i know people get touchy when it's pointed out that not many women post here these days but everyone knows why and some people clearly prefer it that way

"is it so fucking hard to avoid the classic /r/mensrights standby "hey check out this other false accusation"? for fuck's sake"

Was made harder when someone else said 100% of accusations are true

Nobody said that.

Have you guys ever wondered why so few women post here anymore?

― Tracer Hand, jeudi 19 août 2021 10:36 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

If so - wonder no longer!

― Tracer Hand, jeudi 19 août 2021 10:39 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

With respect, I wasn't waiting for a man to give me the answer.

lol

Sorry. "Maybe" 100% are true.

is it really so hard to avoid using the exact same little turns of phrase that we have been hearing for years to defend other people whose behaviour is (now) widely acknowledged? that is what set me off.

THIS would have been more helpful than a flat out "fuck you" or even the the following "is it so fucking hard to avoid the classic /r/mensrights standby 'hey check out this other false accusation'? for fuck's sake"

In those two cases, I jumped on the "they're guilty" bandwagon and regretted it. But from the perspective laid out in italics, it's easy to see how expressing that can also have consequences I don't intend or want.

Because it will retroactively make it look like your first instinct was to side with an abuser.

b/c this is still bugging me - if you go back thru the posts where I was poking online into the timeline, you'll see I was very careful to note that nothing I was finding absolutely proved that Dylan couldn't have been in NYC in April/May. Such exculpatory evidence is what I hoped to find, but it's not enough for someone online to say "this biography says he and Joan went to Mimi Farina's party upstate for the rest of April" - I want to see what is said in the text. That's why the newspaper clippings in that Twitter thread showing he and Sara visited Portugal after his May UK shows were good, but also not entirely enough.

And indeed, Isaacs is now saying “There are dates that he wasn’t touring for several weeks in April and this will all come out at that appropriate time.” So that's what they've narrowed the timeframe to - and if no one can definitely account for Dylan's activities throughout April, then it is still an open question.

Honestly I almost ordered that Chelsea Hotel book to see what the author says in full about when Dylan was there, but that seemed a bit much.

can’t imagine why anyone wouldn’t want to post on a board where ppl regularly greet each other with “fuck you” and warn against leaving an incriminating “trail of posts”

That was the very first time I've ever posted "fuck you" to anybody anywhere, and it was also in response to the first time anyone's ever posted that in my direction. As mentioned, it was needless.

I regret saying "trail of posts"; that was inflammatory.

I just meant there's a (sometimes silent) audience for our posts here, however dwindling. And my perspective is that searching for and publicly distributing exculpatory evidence—for whatever motive or however non-prejudicially—contributes to rape culture by sending a message that victims of sexual assault need to make sure their accounts of inherently traumatizing and psychologically altering experiences are airtight before coming forward. If you disagree, that's fine, but then we don't have much to talk about, so as Tracer said, carry on

i don't remember my very first post

As best as I can figure it was

tulsi is no republican, she's just a self-aggrandizing narcissist

― akm, Sunday, February 9, 2020 11:31 AM (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

you don't have to be a republican to be fascist supporting islamophobe

― aaaaaeeeeeeooooooooooo (Left), Sunday, February 9, 2020 11:42 AM (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

rob otm, this thread has been very weird to read

not that it hasn't tracked with the greater conversation about this on the internet, i just expect a little better of ilx, uh, lol

xxpost: i wasn’t trying to single anyone out it just gets exhausting to post and wonder if anyone’s going to decide to respond with a “fuck you.” obviously there are times when it’s called for (i think using it to respond to someone who’s already said it to you is fine).

I am genuinely asking this: is there no way to discuss the allegations or is that off limits?

I don't think there's any way for *men* to productively discuss it, tbh, as we have seen here already

Basically never expect better of ilx is how i break it down to an extent.

Now look what you made me do, I posted on ILM. Get it off get it off

so why don't the mods just strip out all of the posts from this thread since the first post on this and be done with it?

xp

that's a very extreme response

the immediate and sustained turn this thread took for the investigative was just kinda shitty, a lesson to learn from in the future

There is a way to productively discuss these things as men, and evidently there is an urgency to do so, it just involves not waltzing in and saying ‘fuck you’ and accusing people for contributing to rape culture and to the lack of female posters, or making wild assumptions about someone’s character. We are mostly all anonymous here, we don’t know each other personal lives, maybe someone who is tracking down Dylan’s life looking for evidence could also be a victim of sexual assault. If you take the time to read the actual posts, no one has made the claim that Dylan is innocent.

I don’t know, I feel like I have loved this board because it seemed a respite from twitter-like activity but sometimes O think the virus has caught on here too.

discussion of sexual assault is triggering, period. maybe there should be a trigger warning added to the thread title?

yes vhs, the thing for the men to focus on itt is how they're being attacked

come the fuck on