2021 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominees POLL

(minus one "has")

xpost yeah djp otm

I think there's validity to that, yes, but the HOF hasn't really been bad at inducting deserving African-Americans for the most part (especially early on); overlooking women seems to be what's on the mind of voters right now. I honestly think the DS/DW question has a lot to do with Dusty in Memphis vs. whatever DW greatest-hits you prefer. There is a strong album-vs.-singles/compilation bias at work (why the Shangri-Las and Tommy James aren't in).

Again, I'm not discounting your point, I just think there's more to it than that.

Another obvious example to me: the Zombies are in because they made a famous album (a "real" album, not a compilation). I'm not kidding when I say the Guess Who and Three Dog Night were responsible for many more great songs, but they'll never get near the HOF.

otm -- it's true about the anti-singles bias

There is a strong album-vs.-singles/compilation bias at work (why the Shangri-Las and Tommy James aren't in).

i'm sure you're right on this, but it's pretty absurd as it's the ROCK N ROLL hall of fame, a genre that was completely tied to the 45 format in its early days

It is, totally agree--the Sgt. Pepper hangover.

The opposite side of this valuation of LPs over singles is insisting that certain acts DID in fact make great albums, like that Pitchfork 60s list where they listed studio albums instead of compilations for acts much better represented by the latter.

...like having a compilation be your best album is something to be ashamed of.

It worked for the Eagles!

Two words--someone has to post two small words right now.

Go poo.

The anti-singles bias reminds me of one of the recent Zoom panels that’s part of an ongoing tribute to Dave Marsh. Everyone on the panel — John Sinclair, Wayne Kramer, historian/activist Marsha Music — expressed disgust and bewilderment that Mitch Ryder isn’t in the HoF.

I seem to remember some people on this borad sniffing their noses at compilations, JW maybe.

I'd have to dig them up, but I think both Bangs and Christgau wrote reviews of The Best of the Guess Who that made note of this bias in 1970; it got worse and worse through the '70s.

Is LL Cool J thought of more as a singles or an album artist? I was wondering if he might be hurt by the same bias, but looking at his Wikipedia discography, he seems to do about equally well on the charts in both categories.

definitely both

like I said, unless you feel like hip hop is inherently a lesser genre, there's absolutely no argument against LL being in.

I thought he was a sure thing the first time he was nominated. He's got pretty much every box checked: sales, chart success, critical acclaim at various points in his career, and he seems to have elder stateman status. I don't know if he's considered influential. (Meaning I actually don't know.)

historically, I consider him a "bridge" between the Run DMC type rhyming and the more rhythmically complex new school, Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Kool G Rap etc

also just a stone cold fox

My around the way dude

LL absolutely should be in. So should Salt-N-Pepa, imo

That'd be a good choice too. But, in keeping with my idea that this singles/albums bias exists, I bet Lauryn Hill goes in first.

I love Salt N Pepa, and am not arguing against them being in, but LL is at least 9x better than them as a decision-making musician and writer, and 11x better a rapper than either of them.

(The one time I saw him, m/l past the point when he still dropped a great single every two years just to prove he still had it, he had Bobcat AND Cut Creator as DJs. Cheryl & Sandy can't even treat one Spinderella well enough that their firings aren't traumatic.)

Question: Well, And I have to tell you some bad music related news. The New York Dolls did not get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame –

Mayor; That’s wrong. I want to condemn them for that, Jillian. I am condemning them.

Question: It's wrong. These bands – they're considered alt-rock bands, would not have existed without the New York Dolls. It's just wrong. It's a travesty and I'm not even a big Dolls fan anyway.

Mayor: You and I are in total agreement. I'm outraged. I'm going to storm off the set right now in outrage.

Question: You're not going to storm off with all that Shake Shack stuff around?

Mayor: No, I'm actually – I would take it with me, that's it.

https://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/358-21/transcript-mayor-de-blasio-holds-media-availability

!

I thought you might have made that up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbEigfx3lQ4

LL was in the dorm room with Rick Rubin, of course he should be in.

I thought you might have made that up.

haha the real question is how i found it. (was googling ny dolls news to see if johansen made a statement about not getting in. if he did i couldn't find it.)

Didn't you see the Dolls in their red leather days? Maybe it was even on this thread I read that, maybe recently.

My favorite weird bit of Dolls trivia is Syl and Johnny, I think, attending Quintano's School for Young Professionals.
http://streetsyoucrossed.blogspot.com/2007/10/few-doll-houses.html

Sorry, Syl and Billy, I guess.

Or maybe all three.

Think there was a Spin article about it. There's also this

Or this

Didn't you see the Dolls in their red leather days? Maybe it was even on this thread I read that, maybe recently.

yes i saw them at a club in roslyn ny called "my father's place." i'm guessing it was one of the february '75 shows listed here:

https://www.fromthearchives.com/nyd/chronology.html

it was a midnight show. i was...geez...sixteen?!?! i remember my high school band was gigging that evening, probably a sweet 16 party. the drummer had arranged for his older brother to chaperone us to the club later that evening. (the guitarist was SUPER pissed at us for breaking down early so we could catch the dolls. all forgiven now though -- we're still in touch.) it was actually my first time inside a nightclub. rules about carding were more lax in those days, and i guess we promised we wouldn't be drinking.

of course it was so long ago i don't remember everything. attendance was sparse. i do remember them doing a bunch of songs i didn't know, including teenage news (!!) and a JT number that was probably "downtown." sadly peter jordan was filling in for arthur that night so i didn't actually see the full complement.

i remember the conversation with my friend's brother on the drive home. me: "well they never actually claimed they could play their instruments." my friend's brother: "well i'm glad they didn't claim THAT!"

they were fabulous. i wish i'd seen them earlier though. in retrospect it was clear they were on a downward trajectory as a band.

Cool story! I never went to that place, but certainly heard all about it on WLIR.

MFP was a nice place. a converted bowling alley. when i first started going it actually had tables and waitress service. the closest equivalent would probably be the bottom line. once i was actually old enough to get in, i went there a bunch of times and saw some really nice shows. (television, gang of 4/buzzcocks, cpt beefheart, xtc, steel pulse, grandmaster flash, go-gos, iggy, nrbq, patti, jonathan richman, blasters, hunter/ronson, johansen, verlaine, muddy waters, p furs..seems ridiculous or like bragging but hey those were the club acts of the time.) one of the owners still makes a go of it, booking acts into a small room at a fancy roslyn hotel. he calls it my father's place, but it's a supper club with prices that are not for the faint of heart.

i am outraged, absolutely outraged, even more outraged than bill de blasio is outraged about the new york dolls, that you would write all that about my father's place and not mention mr. billy joel. saddened, really. mostly, i am just sad.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-a-jewish-kid-from-the-burbs-helped-launch-springsteen-and-make-music-history/

Who’ll get in first: NY Dolls, Toy Dolls or Goo Goo Dolls?

my money is on Dolly Dots

Goo Goo Dolls deserve to go to the Rock 'n Roll pit of hell for their Dizzy Up the Girl-beyond career and pretending they weren't a good Replacements replacement anymore

Dali's Car.

Although I'm glad Rundgren got in, it occurred to me that it's weird to see him go in before the New York Dolls. Tried to think of an analogy, and the closest I could come up with--far from perfect--would be if Peter & Gordon had gone in before Linda Ronstadt.

Of his production clients, Patti Smith, Laura Nyro, Cheap Trick and Hall & Oates got into the hall before him, and Grand Funk Railroad, Meat Loaf and the Hello People will follow him.

haha hope you are well, cuz! xxxxxxxpost

sadly i never saw mr. joel at mfp. he was probably already a star by the time i started going there regularly. i think the only place i ever saw him post-hassles was when he guested at that garth brooks show, way off in the distance in central park. i've seen his old mates in that lords of 52nd st thing.

that thing in the article about mfp being shut for parking violations is true enough but also total bs. the village of old roslyn briefly became a youth hangout in the 80s, with multiple clubs (u.s. blues! the little club!) and some spillover onto the once-sleepy historic streets. the town had enough, and started forbidding parking under the big viaduct, where the only enemy had been pigeon shit. my father's place itself had a tiny lot. today old roslyn is again a sleepy town, with no youths and no clubs.

:)

i was at that garth brooks show too, way way way off in the distance. it probably would have been a $12 cab fare from where we were sitting to the stage.