Van Morrison: your views please

If you’re inclined to give him the slightest benefit of the doubt for not mentioning the Jews in the media song, just remember he also has a song about being sold out for a few “shekels’”

Why is he putting this out when I can't get a decent remaster of St Dominic's Preview on cd ?
Oh me Oh My

Pretty sure at least one of the songs on this monstrosity is Van bellyaching about his fans only being interested in hearing his old stuff.

xpost if you're looking for problematic songs on the new album don't ignore "Western Man"

I know that a couple posters here are marsh apologists and may listen to his show, so please let us know if he talks about the record tomorrow…

― veronica moser, Saturday, May 8, 2021 5:43 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I don't have satellite radio, so I've never heard Marsh's shows, but he's never been one to pull punches with musicians he considers close friends. Pete Townshend in particular was harshly criticized by Marsh for an early 2002 blog post supporting the US war in Afghanistan that ended with, "I am grateful for American military might." And Marsh was critical of Bruce for supporting Kerry (who, it is sometimes forgotten, was pro-war, anti-immigration, and anti-gay-marriage) in 2004. I assume Marsh wasn't too keen on Bruce and Obama's podcast, but as I said, I haven't heard Marsh's shows.

Clinton Heylin gets a lot of shit for being an ass to either his peers or his subject matter, but in Van's case, that tendency works great, and it's a big reason why his biography is the best one out there. I suppose it makes it a tougher read to fans who don't want to hear how much of an ass Van has been, but I don't have a problem accepting the fact that there's always been something seriously wrong with Van. I've always taken a glass-half-full view and believe the fact he's made so much great work (and always had a label willing to put it out despite his open hostility towards them) is fortunate and miraculous, because that shouldn't have happened with a sociopathic ass like Van.

But as mentioned, his recorded output over the last 20 years is nearly a waste. Except for Roll with the Punches, the unreleased Choppin' Wood and a handful tracks like "Fast Road" and perhaps the unreleased "At the Crossroads" (anyone have that? Solomon Burke covered it but Van did his own version), nearly everything else wouldn't have been missed if it was dumped in the trash. He can still put on a great show - the ones he was giving at Forest Hills in Queens, NY have been consistently great - but he tosses out so many worthless records that it's easy to see why the good stuff gets overlooked as it's only like 5% or 10% of his output.

(just to clarify, fortunate that we get to hear that work...not so fortunate for the endless number of people who had to put up with his shit)

There’s a hypnotic quality after a dozen or two repeats of the line “Why are you on Facebook?” and by the end I was pilled.

just read the youtube comments section for "they own the media"

lotta nazis there

imagine my shock

Don’t we kind of expect that at this point, though? Every great artist seems to have about a decade of great output followed by a decade of falling off followed by a lifetime of competent but completely inessential dross

Van has done some good material in the 2000s overall, I'd say, until now, his quality ratio is better than most of his contemporaries

I liked something I heard recently, "Close Enough for Jazz," I think, but yeah.

Don’t we kind of expect that at this point, though? Every great artist seems to have about a decade of great output followed by a decade of falling off followed by a lifetime of competent but completely inessential dross

In pop music that's usually the case mainly because it's so rooted in youth culture, and that's always changing. But the resulting doctrinal belief has also unfairly shortchanged older artists who do excellent work later on. The argument becomes much weaker when you look outside of pop music - Miles Davis and Duke Ellington are the first two that come to mind, creating masterpieces several decades apart. I'm reluctant to go along with the idea because it leads to some misguided judgment. Again, it's understandably a common argument in pop music, but it's dubious when brought it up in other art forms, never mind other areas of music.

But as mentioned, his recorded output over the last 20 years is nearly a waste

not to defend the guy who put out latest record project vol 1 but born to sing: no plan b and keep me singing came out within the past decade and are really lovely records

xp - I was thinking Scott Walker, Johnny Cash, David Bowie - artists that started in something close to pop (at least compared to Miles and Duke) and yet managed to put out great (and popular) records practically from their deathbeds.

As a rule of thumb I'd say it applies, mostly. With exceptions, of course, as mentioned. And yeah, a lot less so outside of pop music.

xpost - Brad - have you listened to Magic Time from 2005? I really like that one

Blackstar by Bowie is a masterpiece but overall, I think if you take Van post, say 1990, versus Bowie's output, he's way more consistent and it's not that close

I just feel like a lot of people are assuming things about a discography they haven't and don't intend to listen to

though at the same time, they are so different...Bowie was always looking around for new things, like working with NIN or doing drum n bass stuff etc, where Van just has his vein of soul/jazz/r&b that he worked his whole career so maybe it's not that surprising

this new album is shockingly bad though

Morrison/Bowie definitely feels like an inapt comparison; Morrison/Lemmy is probably a better one. There was a new Motörhead album every two years, and every one had at least 3-4 great new songs on it. And no one outside the core fan base gave a shit.

haha yeah actually that's a great one actually i never would have thought of that

And Van and Lemmy were roommates in the 60s! That's when they hatched their plans for continued musical relevance into the next millennium.

i like magic time quite a bit!

xpost roommates! wow I can't believe I never heard that

Now I don't know where I read that, I can't find confirmation online.

I cannot imagine Lemmy putting up with Van Morrison for any length of time tbh.

Oh, to be a fly on any other wall than whatever walls may have enclosed those two.

Lemmy angry with Van for finishing the Crispix

The Old Before Their Time Ones

probably best to start with these killer last frames for the Lemmy & Van Sunday comic and work backwards: "he ate the grapes. he ate the grapes.", "bring me the Raid. bring me the Raid.", "cookies, I made. cookies, I made."(dressed as yoda for halloween)

I really need that "Who's Grumpy" boot

Just checked out "Why are you on Facebook?" I guess you could think of it as him making music relevant to his own age group, and if it were a joke song I might even like it, esp. the long-drawn out "Facebooook" at the end of the chorus. What bums me out is knowing he's 100% serious.

I listened to all of Van Morrison's solo records through to 1991's Hymns to the Silence. I hit the wall with that one and didn't want to go any further. It felt like a bunch of safe adult contemporary with no creative spark. He was consistently interesting before that though - even has a bunch of very good 1980s records like No Guru, No Method, No Teacher and Beautiful Vision.

I quite liked Down the Road, from 2002, I think? It didn't blow me away, but it had nice bittersweet/nostalgic vibe and there are a few songs on it that still stick in my mind: "The Beauty of the Days Gone By," "What Makes the Irish Heart Beat," the title track, maybe some others.

I quite liked Down the Road, from 2002, I think? It didn't blow me away, but it had nice bittersweet/nostalgic vibe and there are a few songs on it that still stick in my mind: "The Beauty of the Days Gone By," "What Makes the Irish Heart Beat," the title track, maybe some others.

Yeah, that grew out of Choppin' Wood after he fired Linda Gail Lewis and proceeded to mix her out or re-record the songs while dropping a few and adding a whole lot more. To be fair "Fast Train" (not "Fast Road" as I said earlier, I mentally squashed that title in with "Down the Road") is a great track, so that would have been missed, but otherwise I strongly prefer Choppin' Wood. Also, "Down the Road" is a great track, but it was also a 20-year-old song that he held back until then - not an unusual practice for Van, but in hindsight, it's like he had tapped that reserve completely dry. (He hasn't, there are some excellent songs that to this day are available only as bootlegged outtakes. But at this point, I don't think I'd want to hear newly recorded versions of them.)

the healing game I liked a lot at the time but haven’t listened to it in forever

keep me singing was good. “out in the cold again” is really affecting despite the first line being
‘I was Mr Nice Guy too long’

"In Tiburon" off Keep Me Singing was really beautiful too, singing about a San Francisco that's about as far away as some ancient Celtic village now

TIL that Garth Hudson played organ on Wavelength

Also Bobby Tench is no relation to Benmont Tench

Excellent things to L.

isn’t there a really awesome song on a musical history that’s literally Van fronting The Band sometime in the 70s? or did I dream that? Think it might be on philosopher’s stone too

He sang on their song "4% Pantomime", from Cahoots.

And co-wrote it too.

hmmm yeah that’s probably what I’m thinking of

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/culture/article/van-morrison-john-cooper-clarke

Well, someone *loves* the new album...

(The article writer, not JCC...)

looking forward to Latest Record Project, Volume 2: Have I told you lately that I hate you

I need my laptop to play “Why Are You on Facebook?” every time I go to the website.

end of that interview is amazing.

xp Yes! New browser extension where instead of blocking the time-wasting websites it just forces you to listen to Van's latest record project the whole time you're on them.

Well, someone *loves* the new album...

... appalling Tory dickhead, Dylan Jones, to be precise.

Funny name, does he sing “ballad of a thin man” to himself?