technically it should be more like Coo-Hullin (with the consonant sound in the second syllable pronounced in the same way as the 'ch" in "loch") but a lot of Irish people would pronounce it the way Shane does anyway
― Number None, Friday, 16 April 2021 15:35 (three years ago) link
The Pogues are massively underrated, imo.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 April 2021 15:56 (three years ago) link
are they? i mean within the universe of "musical acts featuring a founding tin whistle player" their only competition would be the chieftains.
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Friday, 16 April 2021 21:19 (three years ago) link
I sort I feel like for a band that good, they haven't passed on to future generations. Kind of like what happened to REM.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 April 2021 21:31 (three years ago) link
I feel the Pogues were an huge and essential group when i was a teen but their legend has waned a lot - one of those bands where it is tricky explaining to younger friends how vital they used to seem - Its not necessarily their “fault” but a lot of the commentary/mythologising around macgowan’s “lifestyle choices” has probably aged pretty poorly? not sure endorsement from johnny depp helps here!
and however inaccurate, perhaps a sense of “roots music” being anathema for a certain type of music fan - maybe too it has not been the moment for the whiskey-soaked romanticism songwriting style (again i am aware this does all of them a disservice) - and their entire diverse catalogue being overshadowed by one song cant help
anyway keen to see this film! and interested to find out if there is room for the pogues in the contemporary moment.
― lemmy incaution (emsworth), Friday, 16 April 2021 21:43 (three years ago) link
I feel like they're seen as a novelty/kitsch thing now — when I first heard about them (mid to late '80s, when If I Should Fall... was brand new but Red Roses For Me was already something you had to order special from the record store) they were sold to me as "Irish music, but punk, and the shows are amazing," but "Fairytale" and the use of "The Body of an American" in The Wire and the existence of shit like the Dropkick Murphys have combined to reduce them to something you listen to on St. Patrick's Day and that's it.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, 16 April 2021 21:56 (three years ago) link
I'm sure their reach is generationally limited, but among Gen X music nerds at least I don't feel like their place is particularly diminished. I think Shane's rep as a first-rate songwriter and singer is pretty solid.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, 16 April 2021 22:02 (three years ago) link
Hmm. There might be something to a generational aversion to "roots" music, or at least stuff that veers from the standard country/folk derived "Americana" formula. Like, I've noted before how Los Lobos, once revered, at some point sort of just fell off the radar, for no particular good reason, or that all the British folk rock stuff remains pretty cult (at least here), maybe because of all the exotic/stodgy Celtic or whatever elements to it. Bands like the Pogues, or to use the latter example Fairport Convention, stuff like that, I think there's a slight disconnect between what one might read about the groups (it's punk! it's radical! it's a crazy fusion of the modern and ancient!) and what you actually hear, which in the end is pretty traditional stuff.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 April 2021 22:33 (three years ago) link
lol I put on Rum, Sodomy and the Lash, and right on schedule my daughter walked into the room, wrinkled her nose in semi-derision, and asked "what are you listening to, bagpipes?!"
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 April 2021 22:41 (three years ago) link
That London Irish thing is not really 'authentic enough to interest hipster folk tastes, so it really comes down to McGowan as a songwriter.
― Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Friday, 16 April 2021 22:55 (three years ago) link
I don't know what London Irish means. Is that just what it sounds like? Anyway in the US at least, Irish-Irish vs London Irish probably isn't the hurdle. Shane is a great songwriter, but sounding Irish at all (penny whistle, etc.) is probably what keeps people at bay, hipsters or no. Honestly, I'm not a fan of thinking of them as Shane N' Friends, anyway, because great songwriter or no I love the playing of the band as a whole, and some of their best stuff is not Shane stuff. That is, I listen to "Peace & Love" as much as any of their albums, and Shane has a writing credit on less than half of the tracks.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 April 2021 23:21 (three years ago) link
I think there's a bit of difficulty disentangling the Pogues from all the horseshit Irish pride mook shit like Dropkick Murphys they are like Led Zeppelin, amazing band, terrible influence
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 16 April 2021 23:36 (three years ago) link
The perspective in the US will be different I think the concept of the Plastic Paddy might just be too painful to confront/ admit to.
― Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Friday, 16 April 2021 23:41 (three years ago) link
ha I had to Google that phrase, that's a good one
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 16 April 2021 23:45 (three years ago) link
Other kid walked into the room and asked why I was listening to the "Lord of the Rings" soundtrack.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 17 April 2021 00:16 (three years ago) link
I think there's a bit of difficulty disentangling the Pogues from all the horseshit Irish pride mook shit like Dropkick Murphys
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, April 16, 2021
oh man... i guess i can kinda piece this out intellectually but it just makes no kind of sense.
great acts fade in stature over years all the time (we keep getting older, hot bands stay the same age etc etc) but being forgotten seems far less cruel a fate than being misremembered like this.
anyhoo, thanks for reminding me about the doc. I was cautiously optimistic and then wandered off waiting for it to drop
there's no pain, there's no more sorrow,they're all gone, gone in the years babe
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 17 April 2021 01:30 (three years ago) link
After a Grateful Dead concert at night I was in this dudes car with my gf. He was going way too fast around curves and had “fiesta” on the stereo
― calstars, Saturday, 17 April 2021 01:36 (three years ago) link
xpost I'm not saying that's what I think wrt the Pogues, I like them a lot, but I just know a lot of people that kind of are like peace out on any Irish type stuff because of...I dunno...Boston I guess
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 17 April 2021 02:02 (three years ago) link
and truly it has very little to do w the Pogues or even actual Ireland
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 17 April 2021 02:05 (three years ago) link
ugh boston
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 17 April 2021 02:22 (three years ago) link
feel like somehow this is down to matt damon and tom brady. has anything worthwhile come out of boston since the cars?
Pixies? Mission of Burma? Marky Mark?
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 17 April 2021 03:56 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBvkmWDjsYc
― Jurassic parkour (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 17 April 2021 13:53 (three years ago) link
lifetime pass for Mission of Burma
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 17 April 2021 14:54 (three years ago) link
Here's hoping the doc does revive the band's rep and influence, then, beyond Fairtyale.
― glumdalclitch, Saturday, 17 April 2021 15:31 (three years ago) link
Hey, don't talk shit about Boston! "Worthwhile" is in the eye of the beholder but there's been lots of great stuff from here since The Cars, jeez.
As for The Pogues, love 'em all through Shane's tenure - and the odds and sods box set is the gift that keeps on giving. It's interesting to observe the ups and downs of different music's reputation - old things are constantly rediscovered and made the new hotness, then time moves on again and down it goes in terms of appeal. I'm specifically thinking of the post-punk era and how in the early 00s those bands were name-checked constantly, how it faded in the 10s but it seems to be coming back. At least from my purview.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Saturday, 17 April 2021 21:45 (three years ago) link
blame insufferable patritos fans lol
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 17 April 2021 23:25 (three years ago) link
documentary is good btw. i didn't even hate johnny depp.
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 17 April 2021 23:27 (three years ago) link
one thing I did not know: that “streets of sorrow/birmingham six” was treated by the authorities as a “fuck tha police”-level threat to order
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Sunday, 18 April 2021 00:12 (three years ago) link
oh cool I see this is on Hulu, that's my Saturday night
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 18 April 2021 00:34 (three years ago) link
no interviews of any pogue bandmates was weird and disappointingI wasn’t crazy about it but some good vintage clipsPoor man is basically nosferatu now, what is his actual ailment? Liver disease? aftermath of stroke?
― buzza, Monday, 19 April 2021 04:26 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYY_EaCPGFw
― Authoritarian Steaks (Tom D.), Monday, 19 April 2021 09:12 (three years ago) link
that “streets of sorrow/birmingham six” was treated by the authorities as a “fuck tha police”-level threat to order
Yeah, that came out as the Birmingham Six case was finally working toward eventual exoneration. They were all released in '91. It was a huge political cause.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Monday, 19 April 2021 13:28 (three years ago) link
xpost I'm not saying that's what I think wrt the Pogues, I like them a lot, but I just know a lot of people that kind of are like peace out on any Irish type stuff because of...I dunno...Boston I guess― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, April 16, 2021 10:02 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglinkand truly it has very little to do w the Pogues or even actual Ireland― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, April 16, 2021 10:05 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, April 16, 2021 10:02 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, April 16, 2021 10:05 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink
lets not forget the Bennigans, which my partner immediately referenced the first time they heard me put on a Pogues record
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Monday, 19 April 2021 14:21 (three years ago) link
"the Bennigans", jfc, idk where that came from
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Monday, 19 April 2021 14:22 (three years ago) link
Um, us neither...
― Mark G, Monday, 19 April 2021 14:58 (three years ago) link
ha fair i meant Bennigans the (now defunct i think?) restaurant chain often thrown as a reference for annoying US fake-irishness
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Monday, 19 April 2021 15:24 (three years ago) link
https://bennigans.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/BENN_2021SPD_Website_Banner.jpg
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 19 April 2021 15:28 (three years ago) link
Ah.
Thx
― Mark G, Monday, 19 April 2021 16:38 (three years ago) link
I think there's a bit of difficulty disentangling the Pogues from all the horseshit Irish pride mook shit like Dropkick Murphys Except they don't sound anything alike. I was in Dublin a few years ago and went on a musical pub crawl like all the tourists do. Our hosts —who could really play — absolutely trashed the Dropkick Murphys repeatedly (and justifiably). When the Q&A session came, I nervously asked about Shane and his standing among traditional Irish musicians like themselves. They had nothing but respect for him.
― TO BE A JAZZ SINGER YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SCAT (Jazzbo), Monday, 19 April 2021 16:53 (three years ago) link
Yes, I know what the Pogues and Dropkick Murphys don't sound alike
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 19 April 2021 17:07 (three years ago) link
guy was probably relieved to have a tourist asking him about literally any band other than the dropkick murphys
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Monday, 19 April 2021 17:25 (three years ago) link
@UMS just to clarify, no one thinks you are endorsing this POV! you're just reporting the news :)
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Tuesday, 20 April 2021 00:05 (three years ago) link
watched this, really took me out a bit. obviously it's julien temple so it's got it's quirks but i'd rather his eccentricities than the standard straight to streaming formula music docs of which there are so many.
to the irish discussion, was a great example of what tom d. was talking about wrt plastic paddies in the u.s., the film felt so connected with ireland on so many levels, how deeply shane believed in his irishness, the pain and the hurt and the bloodshed and the poetry and the literature and his ancestors and the countryside itself, all of it. here it's just a dodgy "celtic" tattoo around the bicep of a bouncer and dyed-green beer and green mardi gras beads on st. paddy's day.
it really broke my heart to see him now. just completely slack, no expression, barely upright, methodically downing glass after glass of white wine. he would say things that made sense, sometimes were even funny or insightful, but it's almost like he's trapped in his own body -- some kind of lucid coma.
the parts where the sinn fein leader is talking to him are so uncomfortable. he wants something from shane that just isn't there anymore.
you could see it in the eyes of some of the people he talked to - the woman who was his biographer (i think?) and even ilx's beloved boaby gillespie. saw little moments where he would roll his eyes - "okay what should we talk about then?" after shane tells him to quit interrogating him about moving to london, little sad, knowing flashes in his eyes.
his family history and childhood was gripping. so much hurt and pain and alcohol, just gallons and gallons and gallons. getting fed booze at 6 years old by his aunt, how was he supposed to turn out.
i liked his sister the best, i think she understands him. to have such a gift and such a sensitivity to understanding people - to be able to really *write* that into a song. what a gift. and then to see someone drown that gift, year and year, blot it all out, extinguish whatever talent god had given him. really heartbreaking.
i think it hits a bit closer, because i've always been a social drinker, a fun drunk, i like talking to people. but in the last year sometimes i get the impulse to just deaden everything.
at the end when he says he wishes he could write songs again and play pool. it's so clear that's never going to happen again.
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 21 April 2021 19:59 (three years ago) link
yeah watched this today and all the contemporary bits with him were extremely difficult to watch. the shots where he would raise a glass to take a drink, it took me a few times to realize that they werent in extreme slow motion, that was just how he moved. crushing to see. would have scared me off drink altogether if i'd seen something like that in my teens.
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 21 April 2021 20:13 (three years ago) link
also fuck johnny depp, what a little sycophant ghoul wannabe he is, found his new hunter s. thompson to cheer on into the grave
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 21 April 2021 20:15 (three years ago) link
yeah i wont soon forget the part he rang that bell and was like "i defy any bastard to shane isnt sharper than the rest of them put together!" or whatever, meanwhile shane is across the table struggling to breathe
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 21 April 2021 20:20 (three years ago) link
the worst
theatrically laughing hysterically at every little thing shane managed to mumble out
i found the parts where he was being interviewed by his own wife...um....interesting?
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 21 April 2021 20:23 (three years ago) link
yeah, no idea whats going on there.
its gonna be on my mind for a while, i can say that for sure. by the end of it all i could think of was the body of work that will never exist, songs he'll never write, poems never published, the memoir we'll never read. in the tribute at the end, it was brutal to watch him barely able to croak out a few lines of "Summer in Siam" next to Nick Cave & knowing theyre the same age.
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 21 April 2021 21:02 (three years ago) link
Still need to see this, but I've always wondered how much of Shane's current state is due strictly to drink and not that in combination with all of the other substances he's ingested over the years.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 21 April 2021 21:09 (three years ago) link