Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question

i'd say that both Lou and Sterling's playing is deeply bluesy (without falling into cliche) — they may have had a very specific definition of what a "blues lick" was.

― tylerw, Thursday, April 8, 2021 12:58 PM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I'm reminded of what Dylan supposedly said to Mike Bloomfield: "Play whatever you want; just don't give me any of that B.B. King shit." That always confused me, and probably confused Bloomfield, who revered King.

Someone at the record company might also have hoped that "I Can't Stand It" was going to get heavy airplay next to "We Built This City" and needed the sonics to match it.

Wasn't completely crazy, and they probably were trying to get it slotted next to REM, Smithereens, Cars and the other VU'ish rock of the time. The songs weren't that old yet, sorta like remastering the Knife's "Silent Shout" to get played next to Weeknd or something.

We talkin' this comp?

Yes!

And y'all are crazy if you think it sounds like, I dunno, Tears For Fears.

OK, but the drum sound could be off of Mellencamp's Scarecrow, for instance.

i'd say that both Lou and Sterling's playing is deeply bluesy (without falling into cliche) — they may have had a very specific definition of what a "blues lick" was.

Lou played whatever he could manage to play. Sterl definitely could pull out a blues lick if required.

Lou's chaka-chaka rhythm parts on Live 1969 are some of my favorites by anyone.

David Fricke: There is that little guitar quote from Marvin Gaye’s “Hitch Hike” in “There She Goes Again,” on ‘The Velvet Underground and Nico.’

Lou' A nice little introductory thing, right? The thing is, we actually had a rule in the band for a while. If anybody played a blues lick, they would be fined. Of course, we didn’t have any money to fine anybody with. But that was because there were so many of these blues bands around, all copping on that. And while I really liked the stuff for singing, I can’t sing that. I had to find my own way. So all the arranging and stuff, those R&B kind of parts might be in the back of the mind, but it came out white.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/lou-reed-the-rolling-stone-interview-2-174015/

How widespread is "fining" among bands? I know James Brown and Prince used to fine people for musical mistakes. Prince would sneak the money back into the person's pocket somehow after they learned their lesson. I want to say James Brown did too, but I can't recall where I would have read that, and furthermore I can see him just keeping the money given how his entire band quit on him.

Apparently, the fines went towards paying for the end-of-tour party.

Basically most rock music is going to be bluesy in some fashion, lots of flat sevenths, for one thing. Blues cliches is more like what Freddie "Boom Boom" Washington would play on airbass on Welcome Back, Kotter.

Electricity comes from other planets!

I think Lou wanted to also incorporate more hidden or overt doo wop influences- there is some quote in Uptight or somewhere about "We musn't forget people like The Spaniels," as well as trying to avoid a "Can Lou Men Sing the Whites" situation.

Think the VU-like Vulgar Boatmen did a similar thing. Hey, VUlgar Boatmen!

https://www.furious.com/perfect/vulgarboatmen.html

Commenting on why the band's love of early, rhythmic rock 'n' roll - particularly rhythm and blues - is not always recognized in the band's music, Ray (who attributes his love of R&B to a childhood spent in Memphis) suggests, "Neither Dale nor I (nor anyone currently on the planet) can sing like Otis Redding... I listen to Bo Diddley (especially "Hey! Bo Diddley") every single week, and I own, and regularly play, every Impressions album." Lawrence says: "Whether it's subtlety on our part or the fact that that era's music tends not to be taken as seriously as it deserves to be, I'm not sure." It's certainly not unusual for a given set of musicians to draw on musical influences that are not always directly evident in what fans are familiar with or have even heard.

“We actually had a rule in the band,” Reed explained. “If anybody
played a blues lick, they would be fined. Everyone was going crazy over
old blues people, but they forgot about all those groups, like the Spaniels,
people like that. Records like ‘Smoke From Your Cigarette,’ and ‘I Need
a Sunday Kind of Love,’ the ‘Wind’ by the Chesters, ‘Later for You, Baby’
by the Solitaires. All those really ferocious records that no one seemed to
listen to anymore were underneath everything we were playing. No one
really knew that.”

Although isn't "The Wind" by Nolan Strong and The Diablos? Also a Jonathan Richman favorite iir.

That quote can be found here, with The Chesters slightly more correctly written as The Jesters, close but no cigar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillian_Leach

The men don't know but Frank Zappa understands.

Nolan Strong did it first but there were other versions of The Wind in circulation

its always been kind of adorable to me how for a band so famous for frank and transgressive lyrical content, lous actual word choices (during the velvets years anyway) so often tended towards 50s doo wop jive. like how in their murder-orgy-freakout song he's talking about his "dingdong".

It was Lou's hated Jefferson Airplane who first put "motherfucker" on a major-label record.

Oh yeah, The Jesters did cover it and have some kind of minor hit with it.

Zappa was another big fan of The Spaniels, it's true.

a Welshman who tried to mail himself home in a box in 1965, I wonder if Cale read about it at the time
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/08/thinking-inside-the-box-the-welsh-teen-who-tried-to-post-himself-home-from-australia

Lou hated the Airplane(?)

I would imagine so, given what I've read about the rivalry w/ the Fillmore etc.

Think that was one of his top two hates, the one he didn’t induct into the RnRHoF.

Plus I believe they played a lot of blues licks

lol

I have wondered in the past - if you gave me a time machine and a ticket to see only (1) of those bands on their best night, which would you choose? - and man, that thought experiment is some Fillmore Jive.

You could have seen the Fugs, the Dead and the Velvets all on the same night in Pittsburgh in 1969.

sold

Unfortunately all three bands performed nothing but Englebert Humperdinck covers that night.

Lou hated the Airplane(?)

I assumed Zappa hated them too, because said he hated all the SF bands for being folk rockers with no groove, but then he's on one of their albums I think?

would you like a snack?

i do have a memory of reading somewhere or other zappa giving some sort of praise to the sf bands for doing interesting things musically with the caveat that they didn't actually know what they were doing or that they were doing it (or something along those lines)

You could have seen the Fugs, the Dead and the Velvets all on the same night in Pittsburgh in 1969.

hot damn! would go.

when the question is "did zappa hate ____?", the answer is always yes

With a handful of exceptions to throw you off the trail, but yeah.

big mystery:

http://velvetforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145988

Hmm, interesting.

That one could get matched to the instrumental studio take

wild! i guess I'm not *entirely* convinced that crowd noise at the beginning + end is genuine but who knows ... it's definitely a different vocal and solo than any other versions? I think?

Definitely. It does sound a bit like a solo Lou Reed demo with a recording of the band way back in the the mix.

Think what Dylan may have meant, at least in part, by that B. B. King shit was this kind of constipated->squeezed out, agonized artistic offerings of totally received solos that Bloomfield (like some others) did play sometimes, like on Super Sessions---if he found Dylan's order confusing, so much the better, worked out great.

(Not that all of Super Sessions was like that, but v. noticeable when ever he of all high-flying 60s cats lapsed thus.)

xxp seems like it could be a soundboard/PA recording from a small room, just the gtr & vox going through the PA, the bass & drums are clearly there just not patched in. still doesnt explain the obviously fake crowd noise though?

Someone is trying to convince you it's from the Marvi/Tammi show 'Upbeat'

when the question is "did zappa hate ____?", the answer is always yes

https://alextemplemusic.com/2015/08/the-man-who-hated-everything/

When Frankie’s in town

Did we talk about this yet? Released in October:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/jul/07/the-velvet-underground-review-todd-haynes-doc-gets-under-the-art-rockers-skin

Um,…oh wait, it’s a documentary? Okay, then, game on!

The Velvet Underground: A Documentary Film by Todd Haynes

Would it have killed Haynes to choose even a slightly sexier title(?)

i get the impression there's gonna be a lot of stuff about Nico/banana album in this