The Stooges vs. Black Sabbath

within the context of the song that doesn't scan right. it's about someone who's so depressed they can't relate to other people, not someone who's so depressed they think they're better than everybody else.

xp

Finished with my woman
'cause she couldn't help me with my mind
People think I'm insane
Because I am frowning all the time

All day long I think of things
But nothing seems to satisfy
Think I'll lose my mind
If I don't find something to pacify

Can you help me, occupy my brain?
Oh yeah!

I need someone to show me
The things in life that I can't find
I can't see the things that make true
Happiness, I must be blind

Make a joke and I will sigh
And you will laugh and I will cry
Happiness I cannot feel
And love to me is so unreal

And so as you hear these words
Telling you now of my state
I tell you to enjoy life
I wish I could but it's too late

it's that a lot of Sabbath stuff has this sense of, I don't know, lightheartedness about it

?!

xpost yeah, like I said, I don't feel like he spent tons of time on his lyrics, and I don't think you should read too much into his them, either. I was trying to follow snoball's example, like "If I were to read into them, here's what I'd try..."

You're right,though.

I thought Bill Ward wrote most of the lyrics?

oh, that freewheelin' lighthearted black sabbath

Ward definitely wrote "Paranoid." I remember seeing interview footage where he explained he wasn't even really sure what the word meant, just that everyone was walking around saying "Man, I'm paranoid" all the time.

haha

another similarity between sabbath & stooges is they both have so-stupid-they're-smart lyrics. it might sound like they're yelling out the first thing that made it to paper before rehearsal but when you get down to it the lyrics are really witty & visceral.

It's exactly the kind of wit that you get when you start yelling out the first thing that comes to mind, that when you look at afterwards makes you go "haha that's brilliant! I'm keeping it." They are great. I can't tell if it's so-stupid-they're-smart or so-smart-they're-stupid half the time.

I think that probably the closest Stooges song to "Paranoid" is "No Fun", because I think it has the same "I sympathise with you and understand where you're coming from and why you might feel this way" message, while as the same time also saying "on the other hand, you might want to , you know, get up and do something about it".

Altho whenever I pay attention to the words to "Fairies Wear Boots" I crack up.

this is one of the funniest lyrics in rock history:

so I went to the doctor to see what he could give me
he said "son, son, you've gone too far
cuz smokin' and trippin' is all that you do"
yeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhhh

I think both bands are also seen as dumb musically, but were actually very innovative.

true ^

you could probably swap some of their early negative reviews and not know the difference

Still, like Flipper/JD - close, but all the difference in the world.

Awww Bill Magill hasn't posted yet

This is the showdown the Stooges deserved. I didn't think vs the Velvets was any contest.

They lose again, though.

finally an actually tough poll

i think i'd give the edge to sabbath. they have a bit more emotional range, far more than they're given credit for.

I have not voted yet. The argument that Sabbath "invented an entire genre" (even if not strictly true) kinda makes me lean in their direction... while there were other precedents for metal/heavy rock w/a dose of Satanism (Blue Cheer, Witchcraft, Zep, etc.) its pretty impossible to imagine the genre without them. But "influence" is a canard, I know I know... otoh I actually do listen to Sabbath a lot more than I listen to the Stooges so maybe that's the real legitimate barometer here.

This thread reminded me that I intended to go in the bedroom and get out Funhouse and play it.

I'm UK based and it's nothing to do with class - it's got a lot more to do with gender and sexuality. Sabbath is just such... little boy rock while the Stooges are something much more complex - Iggy's gender ambiguity and sexual confusion affects me in a way that Ozzy just seems like a pantomime dame. I think Iggy actually *knows* what it feels like for a girl, which makes me relate to their music a lot more than Sabbath's "we are English boys and we are afraid of women" routine.

But, you know... I might just be the only woman on this thread, mind you! :-P

"Ward definitely wrote "Paranoid." I remember seeing interview footage where he explained he wasn't even really sure what the word meant, just that everyone was walking around saying "Man, I'm paranoid" all the time."

Close, but it was the other member of the rythym section, Geezer Butler, who wrote about 90% of the lyrics on the first 8.

I actually really like the Stooges, but it's Sabbath in a cakewalk here.

"...little boy rock while the Stooges are something much more complex"

I always felt the complete opposite. Also, i don't hear the "afraid of women" thing. they never really sang about women-they sang about their fears of much darker stuff, ie satanism (Black Sabbath), war (War Pigs), heroin (Hand of Doom), complete and total isolation (Into the Void and Supernaut) and the world being destroyed (Hole in the Sky). Those are some pretty big topics, and deftly handled by the Sabs, in my opinion.

I think Iggy actually *knows* what it feels like for a girl,

why would you think this? Iggy has always struck me as deeply masculine.

and yeah Sabbath pretty much isn't interested in women, period.

(xxpost) I think (I think I think I think damn I keep saying that!) this is probably why I prefer the Stooges over Sabbath (although the latter are getting heavy rotation at the moment as they are loaded into WinAmp right now and the Stooges are not). The Stooges operate at much more of a street level, dealing in the same topics as Sabbath, but in more realistic terms. Iggy is singing about situations that are real or could be real, and that just appeals to me more. And that's the reason I prefer the Velvets over the Stooges - same street level reality, but with the VU it has these extra layers of complexity and detail.

Lyrical themes aside, I think Sabbath just blows the Stooges out of the water sonically. The Stooges first album sounds pretty thin, Funhouse is potent, but Raw Power is strange. On the other hand, most Sabbath just kicks all sorts of ass.

skinny ass, fat ass, you name it

holy fuck I feel like I'm disarming bomb. IS IT THE RED ONE OR THE BLACK ONE TICK TICK TICK TICK

srsly i hate the word overrated but i just don't see the appeal of the stooges especially placed next to vu or sabbath. happy to vote against em twice.

http://www.onlyfunk.com/Affiches/James%20Brown/Oeuvre/Slaughter

I'm watching live vids of both band one of them is enormously pwning the other in terms of performance, and I don't mean on a technical level. Even the vids where Iggy is like fucking 60. I haven't got to the Dio-era shit yet, though.

Stooges. I do like the Sabs but heavy metal in general has never meant too much to me.

I kinda wanna say the same thing, but Sabbath has enough blues in their sound that they appeal to me on a pretty similar level. I'm still torn.

You arrive at the party, 'Funhouse' is playing, and you just know . .

You arrive at the party, 'Paranoid' is playing, and you just know . .

Does this formulation work here?

Ach, Stooges for me anyway. Ozzy sounds like a man forever trapped inside his own brain. Iggy is more like a man who has smashed his way out with a broken bottle.

Close, but it was the other member of the rythym section, Geezer Butler, who wrote about 90% of the lyrics on the first 8.
Thanks for clearing that up. I think its a common misconception that Ozzy wrote the lyrics and I knew that wasn't right.

Asheton Bros vs. Geezer'n Bill?

ASHETON BROS ASHETONE RBOS ASHETON BROOOSSSSSSS

Dudes now how to rock, dudes know how to partay. Pure class.

Maaaan...I think I'm going with the Stooges, as pained as I am to choose. There's talk of Sabbath being more virile sonically, but I'm not sure I agree seeing as the Stooges were far more raucous and disorderly and cocky and adventurous, and they sure as hell had deadly riffage, too, from both Ashton and Williamson. They put on a much better show and Iggy sang about his dick instead of wizards. It all just holds more appeal for me (err, ahem). I listen to Funhouse and Raw Power more than anything by Sabbath. And as much awesome fun as it is, as a matter of personal preference/aesthetic, the comic book satanism vibe is the final nail that's keeping me from voting for BS.

lol masonic boom :)

"Asheton Bros vs. Geezer'n Bill?"

I'm on record throughout ILM that I would take Geezer and Bill over pretty much anybody.

from ILMs '70s albums poll:

84. Iggy and the Stooges - Raw Power
63. Black Sabbath - Paranoid
19. The Stooges - Fun House

gee, i wonder which band will win here...

"You arrive at the party, 'Funhouse' is playing, and you just know . .

You arrive at the party, 'Paranoid' is playing, and you just know . .

Does this formulation work here?"

In both cases, you just know. . the place is jumping with people who gave up on the VU party. And, whichever record is playing, the other one would work next.

why would you think this? Iggy has always struck me as deeply masculine.

there's a lot of submission/receiving imagery in iggy's lyrics ("I wanna be yr dog", "I'm loose", "penetrate, penetrate me") so I can see the feminine angle.

as bill points out, sabbath were neither pro nor anti women, women rarely show up in sabbath songs except as some sort of blues trope - "that wicked woman broke my heart etc".

You arrive at the party, 'Funhouse' is playing, and you just know . .

---shit, this could be a pretty good party!

You arrive at the party, 'Paranoid' is playing, and you just know . .

---man am I gonna get stoned

Man, this is the first difficult poll I've seen in a while. I grew up in Michigan, and had this just fetishistic love for The Stooges (hell, my column for some six years was called Gimme Danger)… But lately, I've been really listening to a lot of Sabbath and have kind of given up on Stooges—they just don't surprise me anymore, whereas Sabbath outside of a couple of albums is mostly new to me.

Stooges, not really that close.

stooges

No hesitation, the Stooges

I mean, I love the Sabs, one of my favourite bands, but why aren't the Stooges walking away with this?!!

because black sabbath has better tunes

stooges have funhouse & raw power, which may be better albums than sabbath's strongest, but not even the "no fun" riff can touch paranoid's or war pigs's or sweet leaf's or lord of this world's or a sabbath bloody sabbath's - I mean, there's a power the stooges have that's rich & deep & complex & ambiguous - dionysiac is the pretentious way of describing it, but it's probably accurate. sabbath on the other hand just crank out tune after tune of monolithic fucking riffs with scary-because-he-sounds-kinda-lost ozzy being agitatedly dysphoric about it all. Iggy keeps the company of David Bowie; Black Sabbath have no friends. Iggy's an open-eyed excursion into self-harm as self-expression; Black Sabbath's replacement singer totals his car driving drunk while recording Born Again. I loved the Stooges first, but I love Sabbath more.

This poll belongs to the Clash.

or 30 people that dont like the stooges

umm, guys...

srrrrrrrrrrsly loving cameron carr btw whoever's pet project that is a++

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, October 13, 2008 10:19 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

valuable new posters

I'm nobody's "project" much less "pet" unless I have some top secret CIA puppet master I don't know about.

The Manchurian Cameron

Hahaha fwiw that post was made under the assumption you were a sockpuppet. Today you've introduced real doubt into my mind: you may be real! And it sort of frightens me! But welcome!

I'm nobody's "project" much less "pet" unless I have some top secret CIA puppet master I don't know about.

http://fasterthantheworld.com/master_of_puppets.jpg

"joek/pun about 1969" baaaybee!

Ned help me, but i actually believe in Cameron...for now.