Rolling Teenpop 2007 Thread

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Woah, just heard "Umbrella". Awesome.

― r.h., Monday, 2 April 2007 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

My daughter, yesterday: "OMG Dad did you hear what the title of the new Hilary Duff album is? DIGNITY! LOL!"

― Dimension 5ive, Monday, 2 April 2007 13:11 (nineteen years ago)

What odds the follow-up will be called 'God's Favorite'?

― William Bloody Swygart, Monday, 2 April 2007 13:26 (nineteen years ago)

Still only halfway into the Fefe and haven't yet decided if the combination of vocal agony and pretty tunery is a mismatch that works brilliantly or one that crashes badly. Damn interesting, though.

― Frank Kogan, Monday, 2 April 2007 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

I'm going to repeat something I said earlier, but this time in caps:

HILARY'S SINGING ON "DANGER" IS QUITE CLEARLY AN ATTEMPT TO SOUND LIKE PARIS HILTON.

― Frank Kogan, Monday, 2 April 2007 17:18 (nineteen years ago)

man... it is really obvious, huh? Wow.

― Matt Armstrong, Monday, 2 April 2007 17:29 (nineteen years ago)

Just posted this on the rolling country, though it belongs here just as much, since Mary's was probably the greatest voice in the history of teenpop (lead singer of the Shangri-Las):

Only've heard the MySpace tracks and 30-second clips of the rest of the Mary Weiss. Her voice has adult richness, but it also seems a lot more rigid than that of the wailing teen we formerly knew her as. Maybe this is a defensive reaction on my part when rehearing a former flame, to immediately think "Oh, it's not that good" - to get a jump on my own potential disappointment and therefore not really feel the disappointment. So I may take a while before reaching a balance in my appraisal, but I am disappointed. "Break It One More Time" does seem a strong song but weighed down by the singing.

― Frank Kogan, Monday, 2 April 2007 19:35 (nineteen years ago)

Idolator, Pitchfork, NME, EW, etc. get the "scoop" on Ashlee possibly working with Robert Smith (which we've been talking about since January 21st), proceed to say idiotic things.

Pfork: "But Ashlee Simpson-- more talented than she's often portrayed for sure, but still the co-author of "you make me wanna la-la"-- pairing with scene hero Robert Smith is perplexing at best, disheartening at worst. What results from the link-up remains to be seen, but something tells us we're still better off placing our wagers on Mike Watt and Kelly Clarkson."

Y'know, I don't want to badmouth people by name or anything, but I get the sense that some of these writers are reading this thread or at least the writing of people who contribute here and then using it to insult those same people (and the artists we talk about)...this is about ten times worse than your standard "Ashlee sucks" line. Like, what kind of a person would qualify a swipe of "La La" with the opinion that Ashlee's misunderstood? What songs are they talking about that display more of Ashlee's "talent" than "La La"? It just seems like those are incompatible positions. (This isn't the first time this has happened either...I was targeted specifically in their review of Meg & Dia's album -- funny that the guy also called Skye Sweetnam by her first name alone, like so many people outside of this thread and her message board are on a first-name basis with her! His phrase was "I've begun to envy the 16-year-olds who get to live with and cry on the shoulders of Ashlee or Skye and not feel the least bit sleazy or bad about it," which also suggests he's never actually listened to either of them.)

Just venting.

― dabug, Monday, 2 April 2007 23:17 (nineteen years ago)

hay guyz i was wonderin what u all thought of falloutboy, esp their new (newish i guess) single, the arms race one. i couldnt find a thread so this seems like the best place 2 talk abt it (unless there is a rolling modern rock radio thread). anyway i think it is pretty awesome, i have herd 3 falloutboy songs and they are all cool imo. the new one sounds sorta teenpop-ish and reminds me of god i dunno, n'sync or something. kanye west did a remix and it is horrible but it is also funny because he starts his verse off with the line "i dunno what the hell this song talkin about" (lmbo!), imo he should've just looped that line for the rest of the song. i think mostly what i like about them is that the singer does less of the over-annunciating nasal stuff than a lot of popular rock acts these days. at least in dis song~

here is the video which is not good imho~~~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FcBnaLjxY4

― cankles, Monday, 2 April 2007 23:54 (nineteen years ago)

not close to being up there with Carrie covering Tiffany and sounding totally Carrie in doing so

Frank, this goes back a bit but what were you referring to with this comment?

Unrelated, "Irreplaceable" wins favorite song at the kids choice awards

― Greg Fanoe, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 00:17 (nineteen years ago)

OK "Umbrella" might be my favourite song so far this year.

― r.h., Tuesday, 3 April 2007 02:11 (nineteen years ago)

"I Who Have Nothing" is nice - not close to being up there with Carrie covering Tiffany and sounding totally Carrie in doing so; but it was a good version of the song

Greg, I meant that Jordin's "I Who Have Nothing" was a good performance of a good song but not nearly the great American Idol moment that (at least on retrospective evidence from YouTube) Carrie Underwood's cover of Tiffany's "Could've Been" was. Carrie really nailed and wailed the song and made it warm and mature without losing its spark and sounded herself even while venturing off her usual country terrain. I've now listened to a whole hunk of Carrie's idol performances, and "Could've Been" and "Sin Wagon" are my two favorites; I like "Alone" too, which you linked above; she did a reasonable job on "Independence Day" but didn't deliver either the terror or self-righteousness; hard to run up against Martina McBride at her absolute best.

(Also, her song choice wasn't so docile. "Sin Wagon" was one that the Dixies hadn't dared release as a single; and I don't think that in early '05 it was clear that singing the Dixies wouldn't have potentially alienated people in Carrie's future fan base. I wonder if this was on her mind at all, and what the fact that she likes songs like "Sin Wagon" and "Independence Day" says about her, whether there's any kind of statement there. She sang "Goodbye Earl" on pre-Idol demos.)

Speaking of which, last week Melinda Doolittle did smart singing of Donna Summer's "Heaven Knows" but totally failed to dominate in the chorus, which you just have to do to deliver the song. Amid everyone else's gushing Simon said it wasn't one of her best, and he was right. I guess Melinda deserves to win, since she does a good job of anything she tries and can wend her way through difficult passages without strain, but I'd be surprised if I ever gave a damn about a record she made. The two kids with emotional inspiration (Jordin and Gina) don't have anything like her chops or savvy, and if they were genuine originals this wouldn't matter, but so far they're just young singers who sing like they mean it. They do have potential. Thought "Paint It Black" was godawful, but I liked what Gina did last week, though I don't remember what it was. (I'm by no means hearing all the performances; just checking out what people on this thread and the ILE AI thread seem to like.)

― Frank Kogan, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, I'm wrong, the Dixies' "Sin Wagon" was a single, but it flopped, stalled at 52 on the country charts, I'd guess because of radio station squeamishness.

― Frank Kogan, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 16:06 (nineteen years ago)

Frank, you seem to be indicating that you are underwhelmed by the Idol talent. I've been watching Idol regularly since season 3 (so this is my 4th) and I watched parts of seasons 1 and 2 here and there (I have since seen all of Kelly Clarkson's performances). But I agree with you Frank. As TV entertainment, I find it great, but as far as musical talent goes there isn't much there. This season has probably been even weaker than most.

Carrie Underwood combined chops with emotion. She is probably the best contestant there's been in my time watching. Most people on the internet hated her, saying she lacked emotion in her singing. I think they just didn't like country music. [and "Independence Day" is one of the best vocal performances in country history. No fair comparing her there. Of course that means that cover versions like those on Idol are superfluous.] Other than her, there hasn't been any great talent since I've been watching. JPL was extremely entertaining and a very gifted karaoke interpreter, but nothing special. Melinda is talented but boring boring boring. Metal Mike liked Kellie Pickler (season 5's country singer) even more than Carrie Underwood, and she was even more hated on the internet. Her "Bohemian Rhapsody" was good. Metal Mike liked her "Unchained Melody" but I thought it was bad.

The one contestant who IS trying to make songs his own is Blake Lewis. When the theme doesn't allow him to do a song in his style, he's "reinterpreted" previous songs to fit it. (See "You Keep Me Hanging On" and "Time of the Season"). Problem is that he's not that talented, and the style he's going for is boring to me, but at least he's trying. Chris Sligh did a really awful re-arrangement of "Endless Love".

But to try to give consistently interesting performances of cover songs, with one week to prepare, every week for, what 15 straight weeks is a near impossible task. Kelly C and Carrie could handle it and they've had the success to back it up. I highly doubt anybody else from seasons 3 through 6 will ever make any music I care about.

Gina did "I'll Stand By You" last week.

― Greg Fanoe, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 16:49 (nineteen years ago)

Heh, "on the internet" is unnecessarily combative and vague, but I just mean that was my general impression from message boards, blog posts, etc.

― Greg Fanoe, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 16:50 (nineteen years ago)

And of course, making music I care about is highly dependent on songwriters, etc. I sure care about Katharine McPhee's "Over It" and a couple of her other songs, and maybe some others will get a great pop song in there like that. But it's not her vocal performance that makes me like the song, and that's the general point I was trying to make.

― Greg Fanoe, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 16:54 (nineteen years ago)

And this will be my last consecutive American Idol post, but I just wanted to say that I love Jordin Sparks but it has as much to do with her personality as her singing. I agree with Frank that Jordan's emotional resonance outpaces her raw ability.

― Greg Fanoe, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 16:55 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

Dave, was the Meg & Dia reviewer the one who tried to imply that you were a perv for posting questions for Brie Larson - at Brie's invitation - on her MySpace? That guy was really foul, wasn't he? I wouldn't necessarily assume that the person doing the Ashlee-Smith news item reads us. He does have his head up his butt (or is it a she, in which case it's her butt that her head is up), not just 'cause he has an opinion I disagree with but because of the fake breezy know-it-all tone he adopts while having zilch in the way of worthwhile knowledge or insight. But I don't take it personally, though if he is reading this thread it's disheartening that one can do so and remain so thoughtless.

Anyway, there's lots of insecurity out there: don't know what it's all about, but I assume there's (1) the fear of not being hip (hence the breezy know-it-all tone); (2) the fear that one's hard-won critical stance in young adulthood is bollocks ('cause here are these teenpoppers making smarter music, or so some people seem to think); (3) fear of teengirl* sexuality; (4) fear of mainstream girls who are flaunting their sexuality while being insufficiently butch; (5) fear of the teen audience; (6) fear of the mainstream audience; (7) fear of being boring (hence the hardy-har smirking adolescent tone of some of these people, e.g. the ones who try to troll this thread).</paperback psychologizing>

*Interesting that it does seem to be all around teen girls. I never noticed anyone suggesting I was a perv for liking the teen Arctic Monkey guys who did "I Bet You Look Good On The Dance Floor" or for that matter back in the day liking the teen Spoonie Gee who recorded "Spoonin' Rap" or the teen Cure guy who recorded "Killing An Arab." (But I don't remember people giving me shit for liking Poly Styrene or Roxanne Shanté either, so maybe it's not that much a gender thing or a sex thing. The sexual insecurity is a cover for class insecurity, and the real issue is that Ashlee et al. belong to the wrong class, whereas Robert, Poly, Roxanne et al. don't. And Ashlee's violation is to cross that class barrier, as is ours. I'm just guessing; it's not as if the people who write these sneering tidbits include much in the way of psychosocial self-analysis.)

― Frank Kogan, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 17:16 (nineteen years ago)

You've mentioned Jessica Sierra, for whom I've got no name recognition. Any favorite performances (then or since)?

I've liked several Fantasia tracks ("Hood Boy" and "When I See You"), and the previous Daughtry single ("It's Not Over"), but not the new one. I doubt that either of those singers will ever make a difference to me, but you can never tell. And as I've said I don't think if I'd been paying attention I'd necessarily have pegged Kelly Clarkson coming out of American Idol as being anything special other than a singer with a big voice and lots of spunk. She's really been a surprise.

― Frank Kogan, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 17:41 (nineteen years ago)

(That question was for Greg.)

― Frank Kogan, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 17:42 (nineteen years ago)

Jessica Sierra: Season 4 contestant, BFF with Carrie Underwood. Eliminated during the top 10 week, unfortunately. Key performance is "Total Eclipse of the Heart" during the week of 11, "American #1's" (same week as Carrie's "Alone"). Come to think of it, it doesn't improve on the original either, but she's got chops and she brings the drama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5FtmhfDqmU.

I guess you seem to disagree Frank but Kelly's "Stuff Like That There" is probably still my favorite idol performance.

― Greg Fanoe, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 18:22 (nineteen years ago)

i was wonderin what u all thought of falloutboy

I like "Arm's Race" and like the newest one even more ("Thanks For The Memories") though Fall Out Boy don't yet mean much to me, but they surely belong on this thread. Lia, my ex's 14-year-old daughter, recently posted a MySpace bulletin of the songs she was going to listen to all summer. They were all the stuff from when she was 7 - not least of whom was *NSync - except the one current performer was Fall Out Boy.

― Frank Kogan, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 18:23 (nineteen years ago)

Greg, I like "Stuff Like That There," very impressive and hard to do, to update a style so well and seem at ease, but it's still just an excellent, assured version of stuff that's barely ever going to matter to me (not because it's from the show-tune era but because that's kind of all it is: a good spunky update from the show-tune era that isn't... well, it doesn't have the personality of either that era or this one, and it isn't "Murder, He Says"); it doesn't hint at what we're gonna get from Breakaway.

― Frank Kogan, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 18:40 (nineteen years ago)

Edd Hurt on the rolling country thread:

since I'm here, I thought I'd mention that the Mary Weiss record is a dog, retro, and the songs and the singing just lie there inert. terrible production values. she looks good, though, I mean she's nearly 60 and she don't look a day over 42, and she sounds exactly like Joey Ramone in drag.

(Unfortunately I agree, though I think with work or Auto-Tune or the right producer (Luke? Scott?) Mary Weiss could turn her current voice into something interesting, since I don't dislike the timbre.)

― Frank Kogan, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

According to Mediabase, over the last seven days Gym Class Heroes' "Cupid's Chokehold" is the most played song on Top 40 radio; Pink's "U + Ur Hand" is up to 10 and its spins are still rising strong; Avril's "Girlfriend" is the second-biggest gainer and is up to 14, though it's still getting fewer than half the spins of "Cupid's Chokehold." Biggest riser is Maroon 5's "Makes Me Wonder" which jumped from nowhere to 34th.

― Frank Kogan, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 19:21 (nineteen years ago)

One of the local top 40 stations here in Atlanta plays "Cupid's Chokehold" constantly. I overheard a group of returning Spring Break high school kids talking about it on my plane flight back from Chicago last night. They were big fans. I am not a big fan.

― Greg Fanoe, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

*Interesting that it does seem to be all around teen girls. I never noticed anyone suggesting I was a perv for liking the teen Arctic Monkey guys

As much as I'd like to jump on this, I don't know if it's that they are girls so much as you are a boy, which matters in two ways: (1) nobody thinks I'm a perv when I say I like Ashlee Simpson, but plenty of people think I'm a perv when I say I like "MMMBop,"
and (2) when it comes to liking teenpop, my male friends are accused of pervery far more often than I am, even though my conversations are blatantly more perverted than theirs.

― Nia, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 20:58 (nineteen years ago)

greg u live in atlanta too? i have been listening to a shitload of radio for the past week since the hard drive with my mp3s broke, so i've heard a lot of that track (i think on it's the one with the hook from "breakfast in america", right? i basically hate it, except for the chorus. it's funny because when i first herd it i thought it was some kind of n'sync-ish black eyed peas/quasi-r&b thing like maybe jc chasez was trying 2 make a comeback, so i wz surprised to find out the singer was the fallout boy dude. he doesnt sound at all like the dude from "sugar we're goin down." i like that a lot btw, i would prob be into pop rock a lot moar if it got away from that singing style imo

― cankles, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 22:36 (nineteen years ago)

oops i meant 2 say '(i think on Q100)'

― cankles, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 22:36 (nineteen years ago)

This is a "paraphrase" of a Kelly Clarkson journal entry, according to the KC fanboard I occasionally visit:

"I know you've been waiting a while for this, so I'm thrilled to announce my new single from "My December" will be released to airwaves April 11th! It's called 'Never Again' and I'm so excited and I can't wait for you to hear it! I know this has been torture for you, waiting, and I hope you like the album. The album is the story of my life (intense, up and down). This is my favorite album I've done so far. It has some killer rock songs ,and some fun soul tracks, and a few slower, intimate songs, and it's all me! The album will be dropping this Summer (finally), and I'll be touring this summer too. I'm having a great day and as you can tell, I'm so excited today! THANK YOU FOR BEING PATIENT!!! WOOHOO!!!"

― Greg Fanoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 16:14 (nineteen years ago)

people think I'm a perv when I say I like "MMMBop," <

Really???

― dabug, Thursday, 5 April 2007 00:58 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know about anybody else, but the "perv" factor is still a big concern for me in my love of teenpop. At the airport on Sunday, I wanted to buy TEEN magazine to read on the plane, as it featured an interesting article about teen music/emo/whatever. Anyways, it was the perv factor that prevented me from buying it. Though when it comes to buying and listening to acutal music I'm pretty much inured to the perv factor (i.e. a year ago I was nervous to buy the Kelly Clarkson CD, now I purchase Hilary Duff, Jordan Pruitt, whatever CD's with no worries)

― Greg Fanoe, Thursday, 5 April 2007 01:27 (nineteen years ago)

Well, one thing that's interesting about this is that most of the artists we're talking about here are about my age. Like, it's OK if I actually wanted to date Ashlee Simpson.

I don't think "mainstream" anything is really that much of an issue, actually. Kids and young teens are often used as the catch-all demographic to project the fears of adults -- basically legislating for an agentless audience, an easy way to assert power when all else fails. Interesting to dig deeper in some of these issues, say, film censorship in the US, and figure out that, e.g., the censoring system is pretty much a front for Hollywood's lobbying groups and overseas negotiations about non-sensastionalistic BORING but actually much more important things like lightening quotas on Hollywood films abroad and encouraging copyright restrictions/enforcement.

Most criticism of teenpop and/or GROWN MEN (AND WOMEN!) who listen to it is doing something similar, using shrill non-issues so as not to have to confront the actual issues. Whatever they are. There's a bunch of em I'm sure, paperback psychology included. Except most people aren't consciously doing it like the MPAA, so they end up saying just about anything with no real consequence since no one holds them to what they're saying. Paris syndrome.

The Ashlee thing is waaaaay more insidious, though, because it presents an impossible position that no one could actually hold: you cannot think that Ashlee is both knocked unfairly and that it's "disheartening" that she's working with "somebody like" Robert Smith. It's shameless base-covering despite the impossibility of covering both bases (without saying something totally idiotic), which makes me wonder which "base" is being covered with the "more talented than given credit for" bit. I wouldn't be surprised if it comes from Ashlee mentions in places like the Voice and Paste (both by Frank), a sort of creeping suggestion -- coming largely from people who, if they don't post on the thread already, should be -- filtering its way into the let's-please-everyone-and-shit-on-em-too style that's so annoying and frustrating and pervasive, esp. when it comes to "coverage." (Maybe it is about hipness...so Ashlee's not hip, but thinking Ashlee's hip is kinda hip.)

― dabug, Thursday, 5 April 2007 02:10 (nineteen years ago)

Nia, aren't Hanson older than you?

― Frank Kogan, Thursday, 5 April 2007 06:54 (nineteen years ago)

I think for Pitchfork "mainstream" is probably a big issue. My guess is that the guy who wrote the piece would have been plenty disturbed if Robert Smith were working with Mariah Carey or Phil Collins.

― Frank Kogan, Thursday, 5 April 2007 07:02 (nineteen years ago)

You know, we're either going to talk about the piece or we're not, and I guess we are talking about it, so here it is. It's by a fellow, Paul Thompson, who's previously unknown to me. On the evidence of this piece he's someone who shouldn't be getting printed, but maybe he's young and will grow out of this sort of writing. And there's really scads of stuff equally bad or worse out there.

Ashlee Simpson Working With Robert Smith?!?!

I've been looking so long at these pieces of me that I almost believe that they're real

Plasticine-faced pop auteur and slept-on sibling Ashlee Simpson deserves a little credit; most prefab sprouts would've given up the ghost-vocals after an ill-timed late-night hoedown like hers. But Ash (or, more likely, Papa Joe) don't take no mess, and she's soldiered on, issuing the tough-as-nails I Am Me, taking a role in a London stage-production of Chicago, and, now, as EW.com reports, announcing a truly-bizarre but potentially cred-boosting list of contributors for her upcoming third album.

John Legend, Timbaland, the unfamous guy from the Neptunes, the dude from Keane that didn't go to rehab, perpetual should've been Kenna: the only eyebrow Ashlee's amassed agenda of collaborators raises is the absence of total whore Scott Storch (maybe Timmy shooed him off).

But when you add Robert Smith--yes, that Robert Smith, the one from the Cure/that poster in your bedroom from when you were 15--into the fray, you've tipped the scales of incredulousness. Is this an April Fool's joke, Entertainment Weekly?!

Maybe it's not so surprising after all; you may recall that Blink-182's self-titled 2003 effort featured a guest vocal from Mr. Smith (supposedly a longtime fan), or that the gents from South Park managed to coerce the seemingly-humorless Smith into slaying Mecha-Streisand in an early episode. But Ashlee Simpson-- more talented than she's often portrayed for sure, but still the co-author of "you make me wanna la-la"-- pairing with scene hero Robert Smith is perplexing at best, disheartening at worst. What results from the link-up remains to be seen, but something tells us we're still better off placing our wagers on Mike Watt and Kelly Clarkson.

In more pedestrian Smith news, the Cure will headline Japan's Fuji Rock Festival, going down July 27-29. And a note on their website hints at a few tentatively-scheduled spots: Hong Kong July 30, Singapore August 1, and a stop in Australia without a date attached.

Posted by Paul Thompson in album, collaboration, wtf on Mon: 04-02-07: 11:50 AM CDT | Permalink

― Frank Kogan, Thursday, 5 April 2007 07:11 (nineteen years ago)

its the fucking devils work. There is not a teenpop musician in this day and age who hasn't been prefabricated.

― wesley useche, Thursday, 5 April 2007 07:24 (nineteen years ago)

At the airport on Sunday, I wanted to buy TEEN magazine to read on the plane, as it featured an interesting article about teen music/emo/whatever. Anyways, it was the perv factor that prevented me from buying it.

It's a few years ago now, but when I was really into uk teenpop I used to buy Smash Hits, CD:UK, magazines pretty regularly, and I never really felt like a perv. Don't remember getting odd looks. Maybe now I'm a bit older it would stand out more, or maybe I'd just be more aware of it? But it's not really an issue since I haven't seen a magazine of that type I'd want to buy recently, UK pop being in a hole still, or rather the UK media relationship to pop maybe being in a hole. Interesting to see that this came up on this thread, since you guys regularly get lazy and stupid slurs along these lines elsewhere on the board. Which means you must be doing something right! Anyway if I get a chance to listen to some of this stuff properly I'll come back and post.

― byebyepride, Thursday, 5 April 2007 07:25 (nineteen years ago)

I won't go over everything wrong with this, since you can see it for yourself. Several things jump out at me: (1) It's apparently disheartening to this guy that Ashlee's working with Smith but not disheartening to him that she's working with Timbaland, who's merely the most important man in English-language popular music over the last decade. (2) He doesn't say why it's disheartening. We're supposed to assume it is without his having to tell us why. (3) He doesn't think Shanks and DioGuardi are worth any cred. (I wonder if he knows who they are.) (3) He calls Storch a whore, presumably because he thinks that no one could have any legitimate reasons for working with Paris, Brooke, JoJo, Kelis, Jessica, etc. (Personally, I think Storch's 2006 was even better than Timbaland's, and that maybe one of the reasons Storch's music sounds so good is that he picks collaborators who he thinks can make it sound good.) (4) He doesn't give any reason why "You make me wanna la la" is a bad line; he just presents it as self-evidently bad (don't myself see how it's so different on its face from "She loves you yeah yeah yeah," which is a crucial line in what I think is John Lennon's best lyric). (5) He suggests that it's Papa Joe who is the real decisionmaker.

Points one through four just show that this guy is another conventional-minded mediocrity who got himself a journalism gig. Dog bites man; stop the presses. But point five is kind of interesting, because it shows him trying to maneuver through a couple of attitudes towards the mainstream pop world that ought to be incompatible: First, that it's music made by and for stupid people; and second, that smart, shrewd, people are pulling the strings. (At least that's what I read into this piece. Don't see that there's another way to read it.) And somehow Paul Thompson doesn't feel any dissonance in putting one Simpson in the role of shrewdie and the other in the role of tool.

― Frank Kogan, Thursday, 5 April 2007 07:50 (nineteen years ago)

(That was a x-post; was referring to Paul Thompson's piece, not Alex's post.)

― Frank Kogan, Thursday, 5 April 2007 07:51 (nineteen years ago)

I am a fan of this thread and the whole teen pop thread crew but buying Teen magazine etc is really a bit far gone

― A B C, Thursday, 5 April 2007 08:01 (nineteen years ago)

being gay is handy for sidestepping the whole perv thing, though it always amazes me when the accusations come from people who don't stint on the creepiness when it comes to indie-friendly girls or women, from smoosh to cat power and meg white

that poster in your bedroom from when you were 15

haha dude is old and hasn't got over it. i have only heard one original cure song btw (and that was on the diplo fabric mix of all things)

― lex pretend, Thursday, 5 April 2007 08:31 (nineteen years ago)

i don't know if people found it creepy when i was all like "mmm twink r'n'b" about chris brown, or when i talk about mcfly (whose appeal is entirely because two of them are hott, not beause of their music), though. i tend not to like too much teenpop by boys. well, there's not a great deal OF it, and what there is, is very...teenage boyish, ie either dumb toilet humour or emo whinings, both of which kind of repulse me.

― lex pretend, Thursday, 5 April 2007 08:33 (nineteen years ago)

I'll freely admit that loads of what I like about music is ALSO (i.e. not ALWAYS, and never ALL) about sex, or desire, or what Freudians call 'transference' (when you project a particular desire onto your analyst, and this becomes part of the therapeutic process, and yes that makes music my analyst, rather than the other way round). And I think people thought it was odd that I had a picture of Billy Piper c. 'Because We Want To' up on my wall for ages when I was working on my phd, but they probably thought I was weird anyway. But I don't know if that helps. Kelly Clarkson I definitely think is hot but JoJo not -- maybe something is policing all this in my head.

― byebyepride, Thursday, 5 April 2007 09:14 (nineteen years ago)

i think the thing policing that is jojo's unattractive blocky lego head!

― lex pretend, Thursday, 5 April 2007 09:24 (nineteen years ago)

My understanding of the Pitchfork news section is that it was a kind of 'pay yer dues' area for people who wanted to graduate to proper Pfork reviews. I don't know if it still works that way. My impression of the Ashlee/Robert Smith piece is of someone working very hard to get a particular style right and not even thinking about thinking through the content.

I really hate everything I've heard by the Cure since the 80s ended so I did indeed think AS working with RS was a WTF deal, but only because I expected her to have more sense.

― Groke, Thursday, 5 April 2007 09:30 (nineteen years ago)

The Pfork piece also neatly illustrates the need fans have (not just indie or non-mainstream fans) to believe or assume that the musicians they admire think in the same compartments they do.

― Groke, Thursday, 5 April 2007 09:35 (nineteen years ago)

The last album by the Cure is THE SINGLE WORST CD I HAVE EVER HEARD, now I think about it. Except inevitably typing that has made me want to hear it. I nearly broke up with C after she insisted on playing it in the house, like 3 times or something. Fair enough she had paid money for it, but still.

― byebyepride, Thursday, 5 April 2007 11:24 (nineteen years ago)

I am a fan of this thread and the whole teen pop thread crew but buying Teen magazine etc is really a bit far gone

I thought so too, which is why I didn't buy it. But I'm not sure why I thought it was more far gone than anything else I do.

― Greg Fanoe, Thursday, 5 April 2007 13:25 (nineteen years ago)

Nia, aren't Hanson older than you?

Isaac is, and Taylor technically (by one month), but Zac is two years younger. I don't get the same reaction if I talk about their "grown-up" albums.

― Nia, Thursday, 5 April 2007 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

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