Taking Sides: Genesis 1970-1977 Vs. Genesis 1978-91

The feeling of that song is hard to pin down, but it's amazing. Especially in the live Duke Suite.

With the Police at its fulcrum

Re: Duke, the long intro to "Duchess" (over 2 minutes, it's almost a track in itself) is beautiful. It gets overcooked and bombastic after that, but before that happens, it's like a great lost Eno track.

I can see the Police landing somewhere in that confluence - if you need a big selling-act, they'll do very well, but maybe not as much as Peter Gabriel's solo material.

Andy and Copeland have prog roots, and especially the last couple of albums have all sorts of progressive digressions, imo.

Came across this intriguing photo recently.

Bob Marley enjoying Armando Gallo's Genesis book. pic.twitter.com/mybrVWYTHj

— World of Genesis (@WorldofGenesis) April 1, 2015

(Hard to know if Marley was actually a Genesis fan. I'm guessing Armando Gallo may have showed him the book while interviewing him.)

Andy and Copeland have prog roots, and especially the last couple of albums have all sorts of progressive digressions, imo.

even something like "Reggatta de Blanc" or "The Other Way of Stopping"...you wouldn't hear say, The Clash doing anything like that

think Gary Numan fits somewhat into this conversation as well

Re: Duke, the long intro to "Duchess" (over 2 minutes, it's almost a track in itself) is beautiful. It gets overcooked and bombastic after that, but before that happens, it's like a great lost Eno track.

I am forever in search of music that sounds like the first two minutes of Duchess

The first minute or so of Carl Craig's "Televised Green Smoke" comes to mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twqwXOxZvnc

Payola's Eyes of a Stranger?

I'd count early-1980s Rush stuff like 'Tom Sawyer' in that art rock, prog, and new wave collision too.

xp Also CFCF's The Colours of Life might work for you, given that it was heavily influenced by PC's Hand In Hand

Re: the Police - go and listen to 'Behind My Camel' off Zenyatta Mondatta and then go and listen to Dodo of 'Abacab'. exact same sort of scuttling crab dance going on there

not sure whats up with my use of quote marks there

art rock, prog, and new wave collision[

Pretty sure Peter Hamill had a hand in that album.

Yes, he produced it, to some dismay by the band who thought that he had rushed them and not taken their ideas into account while doing the mix.

Random Hold probably were the band that tried hardest to actually straddle prog and new wave, to very little acclaim.

that description makes me think of It Bites, whose brief dalliance with the charts sounded like a cross between xtc, prefab sprout and yes, except each of those bands at their most annoying

Random Hold are harsher than It Bites, and about five years earlier too.
I bought the first It Bites album based on a recommendation in Paul Stump's prog rock history The Music's All That Matters. I think he likes bands that depart from the prog rock template, irregardless of whether the music is actually any good. I decided they were a combination of Go West and 80s Yes, though I can hear Prefab Sprout's production in there too.

the first It Bites album has a lot of really catchy stuff on it but yeah I can definitely see why someone may not like it

The second It Bites record is a gem

I've never seen any visuals from their legendary 1974/1975 tour until now. I tried searching on YouTube and found blurry stills and 8mm fragments pieced together over audience recordings. But then I found this guy's site - it's just a handful of still photos, but holy hell does it look awesome:

https://www.jeffreyshawcompendium.com/portfolio/the-lamb-lies-down-on-broadway/

I should add, the format and presentation brings to mind some of the things Talking Heads would try years later (like "This Must Be the Place" in Stop Making Sense).

Worth mentioning that The Musical Box use many of those original slides in their recreation of The Lamb.

https://www.jeffreyshawcompendium.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/01.08.002.00.009.B4.jpg

this image seems to have Phil singing and Bill Bruford on drums?

https://www.jeffreyshawcompendium.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/01.08.002.00.009.B4.jpg

yeah that's definitely from the Seconds Out tour

I got to see the Musical Box do "Lamb" with the original projections and (some of the) original costumes, and it was awesome. You can find some good videos, like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlX4moDYEmA

Like any tribute band they've rotated through some band members, but as I've probably recounted, the first time I saw them their Phil was impeccable, not just talented, not just bald, but left-handed, too! His name is Martin Levac, and I think since the Musical Box he's gone on to become a full-time Phil tribute. Worth a google, he's often uncanny.

I interviewed Martin Levac a number of years ago, and he mentioned the time that Phil Collins guested live on drums for The Musical Box:

“He was very nervous – but we had a chat together, drummer to drummer, and it was cool. He told me that his chops as a drummer were at their peak in 1977 with Brand X – but since then, he’s been concentrating on writing songs, and playing back beats, and that’s what he enjoys doing now. He told me that back then, he had to prove himself as a good drummer. He would listen to jazz and fusion stuff – but after that, he became a pop fan, listening to Motown and so on. He ended the conversation by saying: well Martin, I’m gonna try and make you proud of me tonight. I said: you’re making me proud by just being here today! He was very kind.”

Elsewhere in the interview, Levac made the point that TMB learn their live parts exactly from the original recordings, whereas "Genesis changed things as they went along – especially Phil Collins, who was a very jamming drummer. He had a very jazzy approach, so he used to change his parts all the time. He never played the same song twice the same way.”

This gives context for Collins's guest-spot nerves - as basically, Levac knew his drum parts better than Collins could ever have recalled.

I got to see the Musical Box do "Lamb" with the original projections and (some of the) original costumes, and it was awesome.

I don't think this kind of thing would work as well for other rock bands, but ironically what was the main element of criticism at the time makes it possible. I see that internally some band members were wondering if the theatrical elements were pulling too much attention away from the music, but because there's so much of it (and it's all been well-preserved), this is more like a stage revival rather than a typical tribute show (and sure enough, they apparently had to register as one).

I can see that. I mean, when your lead singer is encased in what is essentially a giant, tumorous scrotum costume for a bunch of the set, then yeah, the music can seem secondary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXaG0OdtRAU

There's a reason why the tool from Tool might be wearing a dumb costume but still often hides in the shadows in the back. No one is there for his dumb costumes.

The Lamb and Selling England are the ones I typically put on most but I've been going back to my Nursery Cryme LP a lot recently, the first I ever got, and I think it's a contender for their best. Every track is good, it flows so well, and "The Musical Box" might be their best song.

George Harrison's notorious ex-manager Denis O'Brien just died. His role in Harrison's film work is far from flattering, but I didn't realize he forced "In Too Deep" on to Neil Jordan's Mona Lisa over his vehement objections.

(which to be clear, was a horrible choice that slowed the movie to a crawl)

Was listening to "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" while I was getting dinner ready. My younger teen walked into the kitchen for a snack, affects a voice and says "ooh, Phil Collins ...", then walks away again. I was impressed! She's got great ears, so possibly was reacting maybe to Peter's voice but I kinda suspect was actually reacting to the sound of the drums!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l3-iufiywU

i listened to the pre then there was three material and i could not find much i heard before or liked except pigeons was ok!

I just saw this photo of Collins on the current (presumably final) tour. Ugh, it's painful to see him looking so frail. At the last show, he apparently remained seated for the whole time.

Yeah, I just couldn't do it. I can't believe they released a live album documenting this tour.

Is there a live album? There's a new comp called The Last Domino.

My bad, I thought that was the new live album. The track list is (I think by design) really similar to the current set list!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ4XfbpS_bc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbIUB-hs6rQ

I thought their work was usually split in three: like 1970(or 1967)-1975, 1976-1982 and 1983 on?

How dare you ignore the Ray Wilson era?

One album does not an era make

How about the Ray Wilson anomaly?

^ worst Ludlum novel EVER

To me 1983 makes more sense as the cutoff of phase 2. S/T has more in common with Abacab than it does with invisible touch