Daft Punks's "Discovery" : Classic or Dud

I guess that means that besides those 4 samples, they deny the rest? I guess they’re avoiding a lawsuit, because even if they were recreating live a sample it still needs credit no?

The One More Time sample is 100% Eddie Johns and it has been proved in numerous youtube recreations.

I guess that means that besides those 4 samples, they deny the rest? I guess they’re avoiding a lawsuit, because even if they were recreating live a sample it still needs credit no?

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, February 23, 2021 10:24 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

only if its a melody, not a texture or a particular wirlitzer or a rhythmic feel

Yeah I didn't mean the soundalike stuff like the Supertramp Wurlitzer, but actual samples audio. Like, there's no way the "High Life" sample was recreated. "Face to Face" also has some less obvious samples

“high life” is sped up tavares

One More Time's sample is a fifth that was cleared, but the deal apparently didn't require credit.

Bangalter suggested in 2007 that Sister Sledge, ELO and Cerrone on this list were not correct. It's possible that they were thinking in terms of a chunk of melody large enough to count for composition, or that inspired the track, rather than half a second of percussion.

i'm guessing they did just recreate most of the samples they did use and a lot of those "samples" are just tiny fragments so they could either get away with the recreation (because they aren't melodic content as deej said) or managed to negotiate deals where they didn't need to formally credit the samples or give writing credits like they did for the four they did credit. probably a mix of both. some of them are so obvious i figure they surely would have gotten sued by now if they hadn't done things properly

i know jens lekman managed to get away with the same sort of thing for night falls over kortedala, he talked in interviews about recreating most of the small samples he wanted to use to avoid having to pay for them and people have dug up a lot more than are credited, though they're generally small textural things. the biggest ones that form the backbones of songs etc. were all credited there

That’s true... I don’t know much about laws regarding samples but iirc if it’s tranformed in a way it doesn’t sound similar to the original or the sample is too short to be substantial you don’t even need clearance - the argument being that you’re not really doing any financial harm to the original artist.

That used to be years ago though, I’ve seen artists nowadays giving credit for even a second of sampling so I guess the rules could have changed in the past 20 years since Discovery was released.

The denying of samples is 1000% bullshit and they are trying to cover their asses. Dozens of youtubers with ++ abelton skills have recreated much of the album from the original samples.

wgaf

Dozens of youtubers with ++ abelton skills have recreated much of the album from the original samples

link some good ones?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I85DUucY_ek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mofmkEmcsxE

etc.

the first one is only the one, known, apparently cleared sample from one song and sounds like dogshit* rather than a dazzling recreation

(*no shade on the ableton kid, who notes in the description that it is just the main beat and that it sounds bad and he used the wrong settings. this tweet is cool though)

second one is very well built but, if anything, seems like a stronger indication that they did replay and then sample the parts themselves :)

Man, Veridis Quo is so good. I love this whole album

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecv1AbcHvbM

here's a shitty full album recreation someone put on youtube and at least some of the youtube comments didn't realise that's what it was lol. kinda fascinating as a project though

I'd relistened to Discovery a month ago for the first time in full in nearly 20 years and jesus does it hold up well. Non stop bangers.

The only "sample" on Discovery that wasn't actually a sample that I can think of, was when multiple sources back in the day cited that Voyager sampled Oliver Cheatham's "Get Down Saturday Night". That one I'm pretty sure was merely influenced by it.

Supertramp example is another one cited just upthread

my local shop had a copy of this for $19.99 and now they're listed on Discogs for $170 fuck offfffffff

I still have the CD I bought in 2001 <3

Here’s a better recreation for One More Time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sdtOpE_3aQ

Here’s a recreation of Face to Face using Evil Woman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iWl8n9wxlA

Also using Alan Parsons and Kenny Loggins in there.

Those are new to me I had no idea those were sampled in there too, but it sounds legit when you hear the result

High Life sample is also Tavares and it does sound sampled not replayed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5uMctGxJwI

They’re pretty ingenious samples I’ll give them that.

I have no idea how people even found them if not confirmed by DP themselves.

Face To Face video is great, ta

I love that they got Todd edwards to do straight ahead vocals over the dreamiest Todd edwards pastiche

High Life sample is also Tavares and it does sound sampled not replayed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5uMctGxJwI

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, February 24, 2021 11:15 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

If they weren’t cleared they weren’t samples. They would have been sued into oblivion ages ago if someone else’s master recordings were included

Maybe they did some in the dark clearances but I’d suggest they recreated specific moments

As someone who owns a recording of Guy-Manuel and Thomas playing straight-forward rock instruments with extremely sub- to average talent, I'm rather amazed at these "oh if they said so then they must have replayed these complicated funk and disco licks that they purposely obscured heavily via cut-up then pitched/phased and reassembled" takes.

They were 18 years old when Darlin' was around, if that's what you're alluding to/humblebragging about. They could have learned more skills than that afterwards, surely.

just look at what time and success has done for maron's guitar playing

*have done. i went back and added time to acknowledge it has taken some time.

^^ human after all

As someone who owns a recording of Guy-Manuel and Thomas playing straight-forward rock instruments with extremely sub- to average talent, I'm rather amazed at these "oh if they said so then they must have replayed these complicated funk and disco licks that they purposely obscured heavily via cut-up then pitched/phased and reassembled" takes.

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli)

This is my take too. I don’t doubt there are recreations in here but judging by some of the videos above I think those are just samples that are so heavily chopped and edited that they got away with it.

what d-40 is saying is that they recreated the samples and chopped them up but I mean who cares imo

The process of finding the samples, cutting them up, then recreating them perfectly so they can be cut up again just to skip out on some sampling royalties would have been one hell of a task.

I'm sure the majority of these are samples and most of them got cleared. Perhaps some licensers stipulated they needed crediting while others didn't.

When did sample lawyering really come into play? It's not like Paul's Boutique comes with a big long list of tracks the Dust Brothers sampled. But I seem to remember the 2ManyDJs album (which I think came out a year after Discovery) causing a bit of a stir in that sphere of music law, with a whole lot of things being very difficult if not impossible to clear.

I mean, if I'm correct (and it's just vaguely remembered half-conjecture here), it would be no coincidence that sample-based music peaked in the late-90s, with much fewer artists mining the vaults for sounds to reconstruct from roughly the 2000s onwards

Transmitting Live From Mars was 1989, same year as Paul's Boutique, and I Need A Haircut was 1991. Sample Some of Disc, Sample Some of D.A.T. came out in 1993, and could have set a great precedent if actually done well.

There are or were producers who would recreate (or attempt to recreate) samples as a service. No idea if that's what they did here. I suppose it depends on how visible your record is, and who owns the copyright. That album by Ptak1 is made almost entirely from samples but it's all Polish / East European pop and prog records and probably didn't sell enough to be worth chasing up royalties.

As someone who owns a recording of Guy-Manuel and Thomas playing straight-forward rock instruments with extremely sub- to average talent, I'm rather amazed at these "oh if they said so then they must have replayed these complicated funk and disco licks that they purposely obscured heavily via cut-up then pitched/phased and reassembled" takes.

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, February 24, 2021 1:10 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

what 'complicated funk and disco licks' lol they're mostly not very complicated

The process of finding the samples, cutting them up, then recreating them perfectly so they can be cut up again just to skip out on some sampling royalties would have been one hell of a task.

record labels do this w/ rapper mixtape beats every single day

Not new, either - Rapper’s Delight had Positive Force playing the Chic Good Times backing in a reasonable facsimile rather than editing a loop, after which Sugarhill assembled a house band to back their rappers. The Tackhead players pulled off a total soundalike of the Incredible Bongo Band’s cover of Apache without any Ableton filters. Dr Dre had a stable of session dudes to replay sources in his heyday, sometimes to save on mechanical royalties, sometimes for ease of getting a clean backing to work with.

if they said so then they must have replayed these complicated funk and disco licks that they purposely obscured heavily via cut-up then pitched/phased and reassembled

I’m agnostic on whether they did or not, but “the samples have been so heavily treated that you can’t tell what they are” is also not a strong argument that they weren’t replayed!

I love that they got Todd edwards to do straight ahead vocals over the dreamiest Todd edwards pastiche

pretty sure he was involved in the production on said pastiche too

he's credited for additional production but maybe that's just to do with recording and toddifying his vocal

hmm maybe it is! for some reason I thought he was just credited for the vocals

https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbym1c4JMR1rrlrnjo1_500.gif