I think you'd like "Fuzzy Warbles" then, it's closer to the Dukes spirit than XTC, I'd say.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 14:48 (sixteen years ago) link
DD, so you're saying XTC's more (imo still pretty thinly) veiled references to 60s pop is the deciding factor in your hatred?
― Dominique, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 15:06 (sixteen years ago) link
It's hard to put into words. I suppose it is that the sheer anachronism of the Dukes becomes kind of critical, like a gesture of defiance against what is current. Whereas the mixture of "classic" moves and au courant stuff in XTC feels kind of reactionary in a bad way; a kind of after punk return to Real Musical Values that is just reactionary enough to be annoying to me, but isn't so reactionary that it goes over the edge and becomes camp, like the Dukes. Does that make sense?
― Drew Daniel, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 15:13 (sixteen years ago) link
Yes. Also many of the DoS songs are just really really good with less opportunity for "cleverness" and fannying about
― Tom D., Tuesday, 23 October 2007 15:17 (sixteen years ago) link
ic -- tho I fear for my own reception in the Drew house based on that criteria...:/
also wonder if there are particular albums/songs that rub you the wrong way. I definitely see A.Partridge in particular as having a pretty unique hangup of being obsessed w/both pop forms of Beatles/Beach Boys/Kinks and (basically modernist) notions of progress and tech in pop, via bands like Can, Capt Beefheart -- seems like this would easily end in many trainwrecks for songs, tho for me anyway, also ends in songs that no one else has ever written (+ I like em!)
― Dominique, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 15:49 (sixteen years ago) link
Dominique, you know yer always gettin' a warm reception in my house . . .
I honestly must also confess that my childhood friend's annoying older brother *loved* XTC (and Wings!) in a smug way that really bummed me out, and so perhaps I am simply prejudiced and it's not really rational or worth sharing with ILM.
― Drew Daniel, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 16:10 (sixteen years ago) link
There is a lot in XTC that is fairly forward-thinking. 'Black Sea' is probably the album to listen to if it's pure innovation you want. Most of it I regard as pretty timeless, mind.
― Just got offed, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 16:11 (sixteen years ago) link
No, "Drums and Wires" is the one
― Tom D., Tuesday, 23 October 2007 16:12 (sixteen years ago) link
Well, it was a close-run thing, but although D&W has 'Complicated Game' and 'Millions' in the weirdness stakes, 'Living Through Another Cuba' and 'Travels In Nihilon' are genuinely out-there.
― Just got offed, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 16:23 (sixteen years ago) link
Yes, but it's the first album where the Beatles/60s influences and "classic moves" that Drew mentioned begin to appear
― Tom D., Tuesday, 23 October 2007 16:26 (sixteen years ago) link
Hmm, maybe. I don't like to think of that music as more reactionary, though. More ornate, certainly, but it has, I believe, a timeless charm.
― Just got offed, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 16:37 (sixteen years ago) link
white music is funky.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 16:41 (sixteen years ago) link
it makes me sad that dd doesn't like xtc
some days they may be my favorite rock band. which occasionally makes me go O_o when i think on it
― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 18:09 (sixteen years ago) link
see also "Wonder Annual"
^^^ x 283764923876548923
― Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 23:11 (sixteen years ago) link
As (I think) I mentioned upthread somewhere, XTC takes effort. You can't just chuck on an album and expect to be all over it in 32 minutes. Each one requires at least 15 plays. Without that perseverence you won't get anywhere.
― Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 23:13 (sixteen years ago) link
I was all over Black Sea on my first listen when I was 8 years old. Sure I didn't understand all the meanings of the lyrics then and all that.
― Mackro Mackro, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 23:27 (sixteen years ago) link
see also "Wonder Annual", "Ship Trapped In Ice". If you took off the worst two songs on Wasp Star, and replaced them w/these, that album goes from C+ to A-.
I'm not sure it'd go up to A- but certainly a solid B. _Wasp Star_ is the only XTC album I ever was utterly disappointed with, especially after the great _Apple Venus_. It does have a great Colin song for the first time in a decade ("Boarded Up").
Which two tracks would you replace? "I'm The Man Who Murdered Love" for sure, god that's such a wimpy song. What else?
― Mr. Odd, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 00:13 (sixteen years ago) link
"You And The Clouds Will Still Be Beautiful", for the reason that it is SO, SO, SO CLOSE to being absolutely superb, but somehow falls short, with the consequence that I am terrifically disappointed every time I hear it.
― Just got offed, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 01:01 (sixteen years ago) link
Oh, and Drew, if it helps, the album that got me into XTC was Nonsuch, which actually gets some flak on these boards.
― Just got offed, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 01:02 (sixteen years ago) link
from all indications, every XTC fan has a completely different set of criteria and favorites when it comes to this band (I think Nonsuch is mostly crap btw)
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 01:14 (sixteen years ago) link
Nonsuch is superb. (xpost)
The 'Homegrown' demo of this song retains that beauty.
― Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 01:15 (sixteen years ago) link
Nonsuch is a frankly brilliant album full of brilliant songs that came out at exactly the wrong time. Quite sad, really.
― Just got offed, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 01:19 (sixteen years ago) link
I really really tried to like Wasp Star, really I did. Still a fair few gems on it, but maaaaaan. Way too much dross. Considering the incredible quality of the post-1992 Fuzzy Warbles cut-outs, this doesn't make any sense at all.
The Wheel and the Maypole is the best ever official XTC song, however.
― Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 03:29 (sixteen years ago) link
"Nonsuch" is surely superb.
I even like "The Wasp Star". I cannot get myself to like "White Music" or "Go 2" though.
― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 07:36 (sixteen years ago) link
Mekkanikk dancing!! OH WE GO!!!
― Mark G, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 08:20 (sixteen years ago) link
Something I was thinking about during the Sasha thread: the period of XTC's career that's probably most associated with whitebread Beatles / Beach Boys 60s-ism is actually the period where they were ... funkiest, at least in the sense that upscale 80s soul-boys were funky. "That's Really Super, Supergirl" has some funk. Bits of Oranges and Lemons and Skylarking both seem to be taking off after Scritti Politti, or something ("Another Satellite"), and some of the pop tracks (like "King for a Day") are total 80s cheery-Englishman r&b. The idea that they're 60-obsessed or regressive isn't completely off the wall, or anything -- I can understand where the impression comes from -- but digging in and considering the context keeps providing challenges to that idea. They had at least as wide a streak of studio blue-eyed soul going on, I think, just without the synths that usually announced it.
― nabisco, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 22:12 (sixteen years ago) link
"Wasp Star" is pretty poopy, but that's the only XTC record I can say that about. "Apple Venus" took me about five years to get into, but it is beauty itself.
― Davey D, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 22:19 (sixteen years ago) link
xpost - In fact, much as this might cause genre-category errors for some people, I can imagine any number of upscale-studio 80s black pop/soul singers doing most of the songs on those two albums, in the same way it's possible to imagine any number of such singers doing Scritti songs from around the same period.
― nabisco, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 22:23 (sixteen years ago) link
nabisco I agree with yr point but yr examples are kinda befuddling (I wouldn't consider Supergirl or King for a Day remotely soul/funk, altho they do *bounce* a bit) - but Andy's always gone out of his way to incorporate non-white Euro stuff, he's had many flirtations with various "world music" tropes, both early and later in their career ("Poor Skeleton Steps Out", "Its Nearly Africa", etc.) Bonafide funk though? I don't hear it.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 22:26 (sixteen years ago) link
also 80s soul/r&b is really fucking dire in general ugh
It's somehow counter to our genre intuition, I know, but go back and listen to those tracks! And hold them up against the context of the shiny/sparkly upscale soul and r&b that were ... not uncommon during the decade. "Supergirl" doesn't have a deep groove, or anything, but with squishier synths and a black singer it might come off like some kind of cartoon Cameo. (Think of the rhythm interplay during the verses!) And "King for a Day" is exactly the kind of vaguely soulful chart-pop that was equally black and white, soul and rock, at the time (though to be honest, stuff like this tended to be a white English soul-singer kind of thing) -- think of the "the way that (we're living)" vocal organization on that one.
― nabisco, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 22:57 (sixteen years ago) link
white music and go 2 are sweet geir! u crazy.
nonesuch suxxx wang.
i like 'em up through around drums and wires or black sea i can't remember which came first.
i have english settlement but i don't remember it too well.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 22:59 (sixteen years ago) link
English Settlement is gentle and very long, and thoroughly enjoyable.
― Autumn Almanac, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 23:28 (sixteen years ago) link
nabisco - I don't hear it in the rhythm section, which is (ostensibly) where it would count most. Sure in the 80s they had a LinnDrum and a fretless bass but Prince they were not.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 23:32 (sixteen years ago) link
If you are searching for a groove or funk, then why search in XTC's catalog in the first place? Sure, there may be some of it there, but the main point about XTC's music lies in considerably different musical values.
― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 25 October 2007 00:00 (sixteen years ago) link
I .... sorta agree with Geir.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 25 October 2007 00:40 (sixteen years ago) link
Influences can happen by accident, though, e.g. Partridge never intended Green Man to sound even vaguely middle eastern. For him it was all pagan pastoral Britishness to the core.
― Autumn Almanac, Thursday, 25 October 2007 00:56 (sixteen years ago) link
Umm I think my relationship with music hopefully involves less "searching" artists' catalogs for things I'm looking for, and more trying to take note of what's actually there
― nabisco, Thursday, 25 October 2007 01:36 (sixteen years ago) link
Did anyone buy the remasters when they came out in, what, 2001? Was it that much of an improvement over the original CDs?
― Mr. Odd, Thursday, 25 October 2007 04:44 (sixteen years ago) link
In the case of the Steve Lillywhite productions, they sound considerably better.
Plus having all those bonus tracks at the end of the album is a lot better than having them in the middle.
― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 25 October 2007 08:03 (sixteen years ago) link
They were in the middle? Sheesh!
― Mark G, Thursday, 25 October 2007 08:17 (sixteen years ago) link
Yeah, Virgin put them in the middle of everything from White Music to Big Express.
― Autumn Almanac, Thursday, 25 October 2007 22:38 (sixteen years ago) link
the CD versions I have of the Dukes, Mummer, and English Settlement are like half as loud as most of the other CDs in my collection. its really odd.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 25 October 2007 22:41 (sixteen years ago) link
My English Settlement (Virgin, 72 min) is definitely louder, but heavy on the midrange. I had to manually bring it down a couple of decibels for my ipod.
― Autumn Almanac, Friday, 26 October 2007 23:51 (sixteen years ago) link
Sorry to just jump in, but this is an unmissable opportunity for me to moan about the fact that the booklets in the remasters print the lyrics in such tiny type as to be, for all intents and purposes, illegible. why? did no-one bother to try reading what they'd just designed? i find this annoying because i know the lyrics are likely to be good, but some are very hard to decipher.
― drag ass snag, Saturday, 27 October 2007 00:06 (sixteen years ago) link
you could try listening to what he is singing
― Just got offed, Saturday, 27 October 2007 00:29 (sixteen years ago) link
the booklets in the remasters print the lyrics in such tiny type as to be, for all intents and purposes, illegible. why?
Are they reprints of the LP packaging?
― Autumn Almanac, Saturday, 27 October 2007 00:57 (sixteen years ago) link
the nonsuch remaster, admittedly, has tiny reprints of the original lyric-sheets, but hey, the words are there IN YOUR EARS
― Just got offed, Saturday, 27 October 2007 01:02 (sixteen years ago) link
Which is the Raft reissue with the back cover printed all wonky? Is it Nonsuch?
― Autumn Almanac, Saturday, 27 October 2007 01:04 (sixteen years ago) link
It is not like Andy Partridge of Colin Moulding have cookie-monster vocals.
*digs out copy* YES IT IS. Absolute idiocy.
― Just got offed, Saturday, 27 October 2007 01:06 (sixteen years ago) link