Ask Geir Hongro

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a even

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:30 (nineteen years ago)

As long as every single one of the chords themselves are tonal, I stand by that.

Chords can't be tonal, though - only chunks of music can be, and the notion of tonality itself is a little bit ambiguous. And by definition if you exceed seven chords you're not playing in just one key (like most classical music), and I know some of the stuff you like gets a little chromatic (60s pop and such), so I was wondering what you meant by those comments. Surely the "most surprising" chord change would be something totally non-diatonic and weird, and if all chord changes were really surprising you'd basically get atonality.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:34 (nineteen years ago)

Geir: Splendid! Taking it a step further are there any Black Metal bands you like? While it seems unlikely you would like any Death Metal, some of the Black Metal stuff might have enough melody in it to at least pique your interest, yes?

― NYCNative, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:37 (nineteen years ago)

Chords can't be tonal, though

OK, but not too dissonant then. Obviously, if you play 2-3 dissonant chords in a row it may be neccessary to follow them with a less dissonant one to keep the feeling of tonality.

But really, the chord changes I like best are more about modulations to surprising keys. My all-time favourite chord-change is the sudden and unprepared change from C-major to F-major at the start of the middle-eight in "From Me To You".

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:37 (nineteen years ago)

Taking it a step further are there any Black Metal bands you like?

No. Unless you count Metallica as black metal ("Metallica" probably should have been in the list), but in their "fast" 80s they were more thrash/speed metal than black metal.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:38 (nineteen years ago)

I would imagine you were aware of the black metal/church burning/Mayhem/Count Grishnackh feud in the early '90s, GH. What were/are your impressions of that scandal? It would seem you wouldn't dig much of the music that came from that scene, but what do you think of Emperor?

― Veronica Moser, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:39 (nineteen years ago)

which is the better instrument, bass or guitar?
Guitar is more useful. But keyboards beats both. :)

do you ever wonder why brian wilson and paul mccartney -- hey you haven't answered that question yet, btw!!! -- both chose to play bass in their bands? (yes, i know they both play other instruments including your treasured keybs, but what do you make of their gravitating toward the bass?)

― fact checking cuz, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:39 (nineteen years ago)

I would imagine you were aware of the black metal/church burning/Mayhem/Count Grishnackh feud in the early '90s, GH

Aware, yes. But I still dislike absolutely everything I've heard in the genre very strongly.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:40 (nineteen years ago)

do you ever wonder why brian wilson and paul mccartney -- hey you haven't answered that question yet, btw!!! -- both chose to play bass in their bands?

In the case of McCartney it was a coincidence.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:40 (nineteen years ago)

Geir was at the same school as varg I think. I'm sure i saw him say that somewhere.

So geir, did you know him? What was he like at school?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:42 (nineteen years ago)

Nope. Øystein Aarseth went to the same high school, but I didn't really know him. His younger brother was in my class though.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:44 (nineteen years ago)

Ahh ok.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:44 (nineteen years ago)

okay, but did you think what occurred in the black metal scene was abhorrent, or fascinating, or something else? my impression is that it very much consumed Norweigian culture/media at that time…

― Veronica Moser, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:45 (nineteen years ago)

okay, but did you think what occurred in the black metal scene was abhorrent, or fascinating, or something else?

A little bit of both. I mean, obviously very abhorrent, but also kind of fascinating in a weird way. As a militant anti-Christian I almost found satanism kind of funny, but only if it was meant as a joke. When these guys did obviously take it seriously, the fun was gone.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:46 (nineteen years ago)

What of my jazz question, Geir?

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:49 (nineteen years ago)

Well, there is a lot of great jazz, but also some I absolutely cannot stand. I don't really understand jazz the way the people who are into it expect a jazz listener should though.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:51 (nineteen years ago)

What Ulver discs have you heard, Geir? They seem like someone you might actually like... Scott/Phil to thread for recomendations...

― NYCNative, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:53 (nineteen years ago)

I may have heard Ulver and I may not. I know I have heard Satyricon and Dimmu Borgir, and they are seen as sort of the most "accessible" within the genre. I just don't tolerate grinding or fast metal guitars.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:53 (nineteen years ago)

xposts

OK, but not too dissonant then.

I don't think you mean that, either! Part of the compositional chops of bands like The Beatles, The Beach Boys, and The Zombies was clear in their effective use of dissonant chords that less talented pop songwriters wouldn't go near. Anybody can write a nice consonant, tonal song with only I IV and V - but McCartney and such knew how to throw in those diminished sevenths and augmented chords and what have you. That's why they were good!

But really, the chord changes I like best are more about modulations to surprising keys. My all-time favourite chord-change is the sudden and unprepared change from C-major to F-major at the start of the middle-eight in "From Me To You".

I think I've seen you say that before and I thought it was weird then, too. Modulating from C to F is completely unsurprising, the modulation in this case is a pivot chord modulation and is not sudden and unprepared, and it's far from the most remarkable or unexpected harmonic trick The Beatles employed.

So I'm still a bit perplexed.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:54 (nineteen years ago)

Modulating from C to F is completely unsurprising

In rock, in 1963, it wasn't.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:56 (nineteen years ago)

Geir-

Would you like an Oink Invite?

― Oink Administrator, Monday, 30 April 2007 23:56 (nineteen years ago)

In rock, in 1963, it wasn't.

I still don't buy it. I'm sure if I felt like looking I could find earlier pop songs that modulated from I to IV. In any case, even if you were listening to it in 1963 (which you weren't, were you?) there's no way you'd call that a surprising key change.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:08 (nineteen years ago)

I mean, the standard 12-bar blues progression basically contains that I to IV modulation, albeit not exactly, and isn't treated as such in the blues idiom.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:18 (nineteen years ago)

Geir,

May I start a synth-pop project called Hungry Hungry Hongro?

Cheers,

― Curt1s Stephens, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:24 (nineteen years ago)

I still don't buy it. I'm sure if I felt like looking I could find earlier pop songs that modulated from I to IV.

This isn't just about modulating from I to IV. More like the way it was doing it. After all, it took three chords to actually get to the new I.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:46 (nineteen years ago)

Geir, if it's your fave it's your fave, and I'm not trying to convince you that it isn't - but there's really nothing special about that modulation. I'll give you that it's slightly more sophisticated than when the same sort of thing pops up in a song like Hey Jude or Something, where it'll go I -> V7/IV -> IV (although something makes it more chromatic by sticking the Imaj7 in there) because in this case you've got I -> ii/IV -> V7/IV -> V. But it's still not crazy or unusual or anything, and it's so brief that it's debatable whether or not it's really a modulation.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:51 (nineteen years ago)

And I think the I -> ii/vi -> V/vi -> vi in Yesterday is a lot cooler.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:52 (nineteen years ago)

because in this case you've got I -> ii/IV -> V7/IV -> V

And obviously I meant IV, not V at the end there.

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 00:53 (nineteen years ago)

Geir, what do you think about "avant prog" bands such as Samla Mammas Manna, Henry Cow and Magma?

― Matt #2, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 01:14 (nineteen years ago)

actual theory on ilm is getting me all hot and bothered

― Hans Rott, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 02:04 (nineteen years ago)

Geir, I have been meaning to ask you for some time - what do you think of Gesualdo's music?

― moley, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 02:14 (nineteen years ago)

I'd like to know if you like Jonathan Richman, Geir. If so, which period of his career do you enjoy the most?

― everything, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 02:24 (nineteen years ago)

nabisco you have a point!

-- Hans Rott, Monday, April 30, 2007 6:56 PM (3 hours ago)

you might even say he's......OTM!

-- M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, April 30, 2007 6:59 PM (3 hours ago)

^^^^m@tt i don't tell you often enuf how much i <3 you

― ghost rider, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 02:57 (nineteen years ago)

Geir, does being the ILX punching bag get you down?

― libcrypt, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 03:25 (nineteen years ago)

The last question intrigues me the most, but the pacifist thing kinda answered it prematurely I suppose...

I feel the great Hongro question that has loomed for over a decade internationally is why do you not believe in the "apples shouldn't be compared to oranges" theory?

Can't you just say you don't like apples while rating oranges? Or saying "if an apple is sweet enough, I can eat it, but I'm no real fan of apples"?

Seems you do that for Jazz, but can't for Funk/Rap/Techno/et al, which I believe is what has made you the punching bag.

Also, do you have any real interest in understanding the incredible nuances of race relations in the US that defines and guides so much that is at the foundation of popular music? A closer perspective on a relevant point...

― PappaWheelie V, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 03:53 (nineteen years ago)

I'll answer that last question for you Geir: "Fuck Off"

― everything, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 04:23 (nineteen years ago)

Good day to you , Geir!

Are you a fan of the productions of Joe Meek ("Telstar," Have I The Right")? Have you heard his early '60s concept album I Hear a new World?

I would imagine that recent Scott Walker music would be abominable to you, but are you a fan of his '60s output?

and where do you stand on Randy Newman? Does his froggy voice compromise what would otherwise seem like music that you like very much?

― Veronica Moser, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 13:17 (nineteen years ago)

At the peak of their 90s prowess*, did you prefer Ole Gunnar Solskaer or Torre Andre Flo?

*Their footballing prowess, not the rival folk albums they cut in 1997.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 13:27 (nineteen years ago)

Mr Geir, have you taken drugs? And if so, which ones, and how did they affect your appreciation of non-melody-based music, if at all? I only ask because I didn't really "get" dance music until I had a dose of MDMA. I started to understand how dance music builds and surges in the same way as classical or early romantic, but may have sounds and beats instead of melodic themes, and it's these that are twisted and played with.

I only ask because your current position is very similar to mine 10 years ago before I had indulged, so I wonder if you had taken a similar journey to me but ended in a different place.

(Also because although Mozart is awesome, listening to him on E is horrific)

― The Wayward Johnny B, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 13:51 (nineteen years ago)

We've kind of done this already though.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

hoping that third time's a charm:

paul mccartney or brian wilson?

and have you not answered this one so far 'cause you simply missed it, you're bored, you're sleeping or you're unwilling to make a choice?

― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

Did we ever find out what you think of Spoon, Geir? I remember a thread from a couple of years ago, in which you complained that no contemporary song-driven guitar band ever got any ILM love, and everyone was screaming SPOOOON!!! at you in defence, and I don't recall you ever replying.

― mike t-diva, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 14:55 (nineteen years ago)

steve quit answering for geir!!!!!

― M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:04 (nineteen years ago)

yeah steve shut up!!!!!

― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:05 (nineteen years ago)

He's Geir pro tempore.

― Curt1s Stephens, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:13 (nineteen years ago)

steve quit ~~answering for geir!!!!!~~

― onimo, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

I'll give you that it's slightly more sophisticated than when the same sort of thing pops up in a song like Hey Jude or Something,

That kind of modulation is great no matter where it pops up. And moreover important is the fact that all those three songs are SOOOOO much more sophisticated harmonically than anything that was heard in the "rock" genre before The Beatles. Before The Beatles it was just three chords. Mostly the same chords over and over, and in the exact same order on every song. That's what makes The Beatles genius. Surely, whatever they did was done before in Tin Pan Alley and classical music, but adding the sophistication of Tin Pan Alley and European classical music to rock music was exactly what made The Beatles great. Rock music was basically worthless before The Beatles while they managed to make rock good while adding the harmonic sophistication that 50s rock never had.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:10 (nineteen years ago)

you seriously don't like 50s rock n' roll geir? hating that stuff just seems like hating gummi bears and ice creams.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:13 (nineteen years ago)

Geir, what do you think about "avant prog" bands such as Samla Mammas Manna, Henry Cow and Magma?

I haven't heard a lot by them at all. Generally, when it comes to prog I like all things melodic while I dislike all things non-melodic.

I'd like to know if you like Jonathan Richman, Geir

What I have heard seems to me as over-primitive, underproduced, repetitive and boring.

Mr Geir, have you taken drugs? And if so, which ones, and how did they affect your appreciation of non-melody-based music, if at all?

Never did and never will.

paul mccartney or brian wilson?

McCartney.

At the peak of their 90s prowess*, did you prefer Ole Gunnar Solskaer or Torre Andre Flo?

Hmmm. At the height of their prowess, it had to be Solskjær, considering I'm a Manchester United fan. But then, Flo has played for Vålerenga, which is even more important. Hard to pick. :)
But I think Solskjær was a better player. :)

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:15 (nineteen years ago)

you seriously don't like 50s rock n' roll geir?

I don't like anything based on the 12 bar blues. Except for maybe the original, which nobody really knows who composed today.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 1 May 2007 16:16 (nineteen years ago)

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