Metal Box -- does anyone hate this as much as me?

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The flaw with your theory, Custos, is that Michael Bolton's voice is fucking horrible. It's a sanitized whiskey-smoke voice. He sounds like a neutered Joe Cocker (who isn't the world's greatest vocalist to begin with).

And sorry, but Bob Dylan doesn't use his voice in a fun way.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 9 January 2003 22:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Though Lydon had no problem with divas on "Disappointed".

("WHAT FRIIIEEENDS ARE FO-O-O-O-O-O-R! O-O-O-O-O-O-O-OHHHH!")

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 9 January 2003 22:51 (twenty-three years ago)

he's a blast to listen to

Even if I liked the vocals on this record better, I think I'd still find this statement incredible.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 9 January 2003 22:54 (twenty-three years ago)

They should've replaced Lydon with Mrs. Miller:

― hstencil, Thursday, 9 January 2003 22:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I think in this case, "blast" means "shotgun blast to the temple".

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 9 January 2003 23:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe we should separate the terms "great singer" and "great vocalist".

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 10 January 2003 00:57 (twenty-three years ago)

I listened to this again last night while constructing a bed. The music reminded me a lot more of Chrome than I had remembered. Lydon sounds possessed and evil, almost like Olivier's Richard III. The whole thing is like some kind of painful method-acting session set to a beat. You probably have to buy into the misanthropic mood to get anything out of it, but it sold me. I don't remember ever playing the last two sides before, but I like them much better than the first two -- lots of farting electronics, sort of like Pere Ubu is always described as having even though I can never hear them.

― Kris (aqueduct), Friday, 10 January 2003 01:06 (twenty-three years ago)

I think Rotten/Lydon is one of the greatest vocalists in rock history, though I know nothing of his career post-Metal Box. I generally don't listen to rock to hear people sing.

― Kris (aqueduct), Friday, 10 January 2003 01:08 (twenty-three years ago)

wasn't the format (12"s) supposed to disrupt the notion of "album" (a hated word back then...prog rockers made albums, bruce springsteen made albums). Ha ha and I think one of the main complaints about the album now is that it's too rockist when it was orignally conceive of in popist terms!

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 10 January 2003 01:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Lydon and Dylan = both great, great singers with nonstart voices. And they're both a blast to listen to. (Cocker and Bolton, though, are both equally horrible.)

Julio: Is Metal Box really part of the 'canon'?

Anthony: I agree that Delta 5 are better than PiL, but that's not much of a criticism because D5 are also better than 99.9999992% of everything in the known universe.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 10 January 2003 01:12 (twenty-three years ago)

And sorry, but Bob Dylan doesn't use his voice in a fun way.

VINDICATION. Stuff him in the Wicker Man and watch him burn.

Great album but I'd love a remastered CD.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 10 January 2003 02:15 (twenty-three years ago)

though I know nothing of his career post-Metal Box.

With a handful of exceptions, you've pretty much heard the good stuff.

― Sean (Sean), Friday, 10 January 2003 02:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Platinum Hits V. 1 Instrumentals superscedes it -- and would even more so if Lydon was whispering all over it.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 10 January 2003 04:52 (twenty-three years ago)

I bought this the day it came into my favorite Hoouston record shop the year it came out.The metal box was too cool.I remember putting it on & thinking the bass would explode my speakers.I listened to it over & over again trying to "get it" It sounded odd then & remember i was a Pistols fan.As a 19 year this blew my mind.How did my favorite punk go from the Pistols to this?I admired his progression & we shold only be so lucky that more bands today experimented this much.I still have this & it sounds willfully experimental even today.One more album & Johnny sold out & PIL has sucked since.Kieth Levine has guitar sounds on this that i still hane not figured out how he got.Avoid second edition.The sound is flat & muffled.One of the great albums of the post punk era

― evan chronister, Friday, 10 January 2003 06:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Slightly OT but - last nite I heard "Public Image" in this club, and the first 30 seconds is still the most thrilling volley of nails ever, gtr/screech perfection. Then it just kind of winds down and repeats itself for the duration, and you see everyone dancing along attempting to maintain the buzz like nothing's wrong, like when you run out of coke and scrape dust off the table top snorting it convincing yourself that there's still enough neurotransmitter-ticklers to get you off. What if they had ProTools back then, they could've cut the flab out and it would've been the most concentrated lethal hit ever. Or in the absence of ProTools maybe some acknowledgement of 'structure'/'tension/release' would've helped?

― dave q, Friday, 10 January 2003 10:27 (twenty-three years ago)

''Julio: Is Metal Box really part of the 'canon'?''

yes. I have seen it a couple of times on classic albums pages in music mags. it gets voted as one of the best alb of that period and it gets connected with the whole 'wasn't 1979, like, the BEST YEAR EVAH FOR MUSIC!'

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 10 January 2003 12:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe we should separate the terms "great singer" and "great vocalist".
I tried to, but nobodies buyin' it.

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 10 January 2003 15:52 (twenty-three years ago)

"vocalist" is the lamest word ever: of course lydon is a singer, and dan perry is just wrong here

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 10 January 2003 15:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Great album but I'd love a remastered CD.
Ned: Does the remaster clean up the sound (or resequence the brain-damaged track order)?

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 10 January 2003 15:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Though Lydon had no problem with divas
Ye Gods. Now I'm hearing, in my head, Lydon singing the Whitney Houston version of "I Will Always Love You" and its rocking my world.

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 10 January 2003 15:57 (twenty-three years ago)

haha way to make dan perry cry!!

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oiiiieeeeeeyyyyooooaaaaiiiieeee will awwwllwayssssss laaaaaaavvv yeeeeooouuuuu---eeee----yeeeeeoooouuu!

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Stop! Stop the Insanity!

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:09 (twenty-three years ago)

I AM NOT WRONG. The man has only sung FIVE NOTES in his entire career. He does so in a shrieky, histrionic way no matter what the song is. Jesus Christ, people!

By all means enjoy him if that's the style of vocals you like, but calling him a singer is very much like calling Biz Markie a singer for the bellowing he does on "Just A Friend".

(And to completely confound expectations, Lydon trying to do Whitney's version of "I Will Always Love You" is probably the FUNNIEST THING EVER.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Biz Markie really feelz it on "Just a Friend," yo. Like to see Kathleen fuckin' Battle sing it with as much emotion.

Listened to Second Edition last night, gawd what a fucking great record, "vocalist" or not. Haterz are insane.

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 16:16 (twenty-three years ago)

(And to completely confound expectations, Lydon trying to do Whitney's version of "I Will Always Love You" is probably the FUNNIEST THING EVER.)
I agree.

I AM NOT WRONG. The man has only sung FIVE NOTES in his entire career. He does so in a shrieky, histrionic way no matter what the song is. Jesus Christ, people!
His blood pressure is 260 over 100! Intensive care...Stat!

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:17 (twenty-three years ago)

it's more more radical on 12" hstencil

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, listening to it at 45 rpm blows up banks, whereas at 33 rpm it just makes you wanna clean up your room.

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 16:30 (twenty-three years ago)

real revolutionaries tidy their rooms as a matter of course < / my mum >

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:38 (twenty-three years ago)

ha, well then I'm the next Karl Marx.

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 16:40 (twenty-three years ago)

well, I have one of these 45's which I found at my local rec store in welling (oh yes, right in the big bargain thingy).

dan learned the def of singing at school. and we all know schools suck.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:49 (twenty-three years ago)

I learned the definition of singing from listening to people who could sing.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 10 January 2003 16:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Like Biz Markie?

― hstencil, Friday, 10 January 2003 17:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Custos: he's a blast to listen to
Dan Perry: I think in this case, "blast" means "shotgun blast to the temple".
Yes, Dan Perry. You are exactly right. Hit the blasting cap right on the
head there. Never has there been a better description of Lydons voice. He opens his mouth, stretches his rust-encrusted vocal cords and *Bladow!*

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 10 January 2003 17:19 (twenty-three years ago)

mark stewart is a great singer though, eh? and he's worse than Lydon.

― gaz (gaz), Saturday, 11 January 2003 08:47 (twenty-three years ago)

ok: logical analogy (not that i think there's a real analogy here, i'm just using this as a tool to unpack logical discrepancies, y'unerstand?) re: Lydon as a singer.

punk= impressionism
post-punk = post impressionism.

would you complain that Van Gogh could'nt paint?
because compared to social realist or other 19th C skools the guy has got NO CHOPS.

impressionism burst that bubble. like punk.

if Lydon doesn't convince you to buy into the misanthropic mood then, sure, you can consider him a crap singer.

Me? He sold me. Post-punk expressionism, he is the Van Gogh of vocalists maaaan.

btw: how would "real good singers" have coped with the themes of metal box? How owuld say, Ella, have interpereted all that claustrophic, dub influenced, post-punk, anti-corpotate after pistols angst? sweetly? or with a five-note off key whine?

― gaz (gaz), Saturday, 11 January 2003 09:23 (twenty-three years ago)

metal box isn't misanthropic, it's sad!! it's about a hot love and a hot love project which failed (lydon + mclaren = the ruin of everything rubbish)

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 11 January 2003 10:57 (twenty-three years ago)

I think you've got it. I just tossed my '2nd ed' in th' toilet.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 11 January 2003 10:59 (twenty-three years ago)

yes, a lot of the lyrics are abt how much Lydon HATES mclaren's guts.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 11 January 2003 12:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Which ones?

― Ben Williams, Saturday, 11 January 2003 14:42 (twenty-three years ago)

I just listened to it the other night because of this thread. It's a pain in the ass getting the records out of the box; even shaking it took some time. Each disc is numbered so you can tell which side is which... sellouts!

― Sean (Sean), Saturday, 11 January 2003 16:30 (twenty-three years ago)

as I've discovered from PIL videos on VH1 Classic Rock, John Lydon...at the very least, is lots of fun to watch dance around with bug eyes.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 11 January 2003 17:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Classic Rock.

― Sean (Sean), Saturday, 11 January 2003 17:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Nirvana's already classic rock. What's funnier is when Green Day will be.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 11 January 2003 17:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey, one question: I got Metal Box on CD recently to replace my copy of 2nd Ed, but it has, like NO INFORMATION on it at ALL, including track listing. I know I could look it up or just remember which song was which, but was this version supposed to come with a round booklet or something? Just so I know I got hosed?

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 11 January 2003 18:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Getting hosed is part of the PiL experience! Anyway, the only thing the LP came with was the track listing.

― Sean (Sean), Saturday, 11 January 2003 19:00 (twenty-three years ago)

''Which ones?''

'Albatross' is abt Mclaren for instance but I haven't looked up the lyrics in a while or heard it. maybe tonight.

sean: the metal box CD (with the metal case, which is what i have) doesn't have an info booklet but mine came with a small piece of paper with the track listing and who's in it (though it doesn't say what they do).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 11 January 2003 20:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Would it be a pain in the ass for you to scan the paper for me, Julio, or at least just email me what's on it, so I can put a little note in the case?

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 11 January 2003 21:14 (twenty-three years ago)

I'll give you an email tomorrow sean (not tonight, my dad is telling me to get out of the phoneline.

I'll give you the tracklisting and who's in it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 11 January 2003 21:46 (twenty-three years ago)

actually for a while I thought Lydon sang on 'albatross' but in fact its Wobble's vocals (he does a good impression of Lydon, of course). Lydon comes in at the end of albatross with the 'Only the Lonely' bit.

heh...thanks to marcello again. was looking at 'Church of Me' and he did a write up on metal Box. go there.

I listened to some of the tracks again. Lydon's vocal on 'Chant' is prob my favourite. an example to every up and coming singer.

Look Dan, if you want great singing go to Lydon, albert ayler and Kurt schiwitters OK.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 11 January 2003 21:53 (twenty-three years ago)

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