The Monkees: Classic or Dud?

Just suggesting support for one, is all.

"If I Ever Get To Saginaw" is a really great Monkees deep cut, from the Instant Replay expanded issue. Sung by Nez (but written by someone else I think), it's kind of a heart-rending tale of wayward youth and its consequences. If not a Teenage Symphony To God, surely a Teenage After-School Special To God.

fwiw I didn't intend to chide anybody about proposing a poll! just wanted to shout-out the order-and-timing thread really. the process (such as it is) has settled out by consensus into something way chiller than it was five years ago.

You’re not the only cuddly toy to ever enjoy cutting in line.

I think each and every song on Head gets a slot on my ballot. (There are only six songs on the album.)

I was re-shelving some records and turns out I have the Nesmith album--no recollection of where or when I got it, or what it sounds like.

recently enjoyed his contributions to the commentary track for Repo Man, def worth a listen there

His Facebook posts are pretty enjoyable.

...And The Hits... is a neat album. The lineup--just Nesmith on guitar (and barely audible keyboards) and Red Rhodes on steel--is something I'm surprised other Roots/Americana artists haven't run with, but I guess you need an instrumental wiz like Rhodes on board to really make it work.

As a moderate fan of this group, I was wondering which vaguely comparable (pop, singles-oriented) acts from the late 60s I would judge "equal to or weaker than the Monkees":

EQUAL TO THE MONKEES:
Buffalo Springfield?
Hollies
Left Banke
Mamas and the Papas
Turtles

WEAKER THAN THE MONKEES:
Lovin' Spoonful
Move
Rascals
Troggs

DON'T KNOW THEM WELL ENOUGH:
Association
Box Tops
Four Seasons (a little too early to compare?)
Tommy James

Zombies, fer shure

I am kind of a moderate fan of this group as well, albeit with a couple of ins, which is kind of why I would like a poll - no pressure! - as an excuse for a deeper dive.

The one band from that list I would unhesitatingly put ahead of them would be the Buffalo Springfield. I wouldn't call them a singles band, though--one big hit, nothing else inside the Top 40.

If we're evaluating the Monkees as a "singles band" they might blow everybody on that list out of the water. They just have so many carefully-crafted gems by so many great professional songwriters. OTOH they'd fall beneath most or all of the Motown heavy-hitters.

Old Lunch: I'd say Odessey and Oracle puts the Zombies ahead, there's no single Monkees album as consistent as that.

Clemenza: that's certainly a fair take, Buffalo Springfield were definitely highly ambitious. I find all their records spotty (never heard the box set), and Richie Furay is a null to me.

Doctor Casino: By "singles band" I didn't mean I was evaluating only their singles, I mean I was avoiding comparing them to e.g. Quicksilver Messenger Service or Country Joe and the Fish (who are both a lot weaker than the Monkees). A lot of Monkees singles are more irritating than catchy to me.

I like all of those bands, apart from the Hollies, who I've never paid any attention to.

The Troggs are lower tier though, much as they have some real bangers.

The Monkees, by their very nature, are much more eclectic than any of the bands on the list - I mean, you're talking about an entity that contained both Davy Jones and Michael Nesmith. The Turtles are probably the closest to the Monkees, I'd say.

I like all of these bands too, but rank them all below the best of the era. To me, the Hollies are not well-represented by their compilations, it wasn't until I heard albums like Butterfly that I understood the appeal of Graham Nash.
The Move are also pretty eclectic, despite having only one songwriter, but at some point that shades into wondering if they know what they actually want to do.

@ Halfway - fair enough! I also don't know a lot of those bands as well as I know the Monkees, so off the top of my head I think I could name 3-4 singles by the Association, of which I like 1-2.

I went through the list of top 60s acts on Acclaimed Music to jog my memory for this list.

Paul Revere & the Raiders are a pretty good comp for the Monkees.

Stylistic yeah, and they even did some of the same songs. One, at least. But did they put out as much material?

yah there are at least six full-lengths!

I was misinformed!

My vote would definitely go to the Monkees' run of singles, but the Raiders had at least three I love: "Just Like Me," "What's It Gonna Be," and "Tighter." (Not that big on "Hungry.") They seem really similar in terms the way they were marketed (and treated by whatever rock press existed) as novelties, and by the jangly power-pop of their best songs. I'm blanking out on the song they shared.

The Sex Pistols did it too. The Raiders did it first, but The Monkees had the hit.

"Stepping Stone," right.

Raiders had a much lengthier career, from early 60s to well into the 70s, many hit singles and albums, and a TV show, yet I don’t think they’re remembered/loved in the same way as The Monkees.

Don't know them very well, had them pegged as "garage rock" (more than the Troggs, who had several ballad hits).

I only know the hits: "Kicks," "Just Like Me," and then "Indian Reservation" and "Arizona," probably forgetting a few others.

"Steppin' Out" is great too!

scott seward LOVES the Raiders/Paul Revere/Mark Lindsey, I'm sure there are good posts by him abt them somewhere

Also worth emphasizing that the Monkees (and Nesmith solo, too, for that matter) feature some all time Wrecking Crew playing. Peak Wrecking Crew could be Nesmith's "The Wichita Train Whistle Sings" album.

Whoever came up with the guitar lick of "Pleasant Valley Sunday," man ... that's on par with "Paperback Writer" (which it's probably referencing).

It's not Louie Shelton?

Hm. Seems like it might be Mike Nesmith himself.

Never heard Paul Revere & the Raiders but I think that's something I share with the entire population of the UK.

Paul Revere & The Raiders are great! Worth exploring imo

“Let Me” is a great rocker from later in their career, 1969. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIL7YT9asO0

Somebody mentioned The Wrecking Crew but an interesting thing, to me anyway, is that during the Kirshner era lots of tracks were also recorded in NYC with Brill Building musicians/streetteam

Here's a Spotify recreation of the "all the Monkees you will ever need" 70-song double C90 mixtape I put together around 1990 after Missing Links, Vol. 2 came out.

https://open.spotify.com/user/hideouslump/playlist/7HuOSVKchQ2PsJyaMXqPhn

To give you an idea of how good the Missing Links collections are, there's 11 tracks from Vol. 1* and 3 from Vol. 2**.

TAPE 1, SIDE 1
I Wanna Be Free
I'll Be Back Up On My Feet
Daddy's Song
Last Train To Clarksville
You Told Me
Long Title: Do I Have To Do This All Over Again
Good Clean Fun
Words
Look Out (Here Comes Tomorrow)
Salesman
Shades Of Gray
The Porpoise Song
Nine Times Blue*
Mary Mary
You Just May Be The One
Through The Looking Glass
Listen To The Band
(Theme From) The Monkees

TAPE 1, SIDE 2
Star Collector
Daily Nightly
St. Matthew**
She
Don't Call On Me
As We Go Along
Forget That Girl
Oklahoma Backroom Dancer
All Of Your Toys*
If You Have The Time*
I'm Not Your Steppin' Stone
Circle Sky
Love Is Only Sleeping
Time And Time Again*
Your Auntie Grizelda
I Can't Get Her Off Of My Mind
I'm A Believer

TAPE 2, SIDE 1
Sunny Girlfriend
Auntie's Municipal Court
Cuddly Toy
Valleri
The Kind Of Girl I Could Love
All The King's Horses**
I Don't Think You Know Me At All*
Pleasant Valley Sunday
My Share Of The Sidewalk*
Lady's Baby*
Laugh
Saturday's Child
Of You*
I Love You Better
Daydream Believer
Sweet Young Thing
War Games*
Gonna Buy Me A Dog

TAPE 2, SIDE 2
Randy Scouse Git
Early Morning Blues & Greens
Take A Giant Step
She Hangs Out
Zor And Zam
Come On In**
Papa Gene's Blues
Someday Man
A Girl I Knew Somewhere
Carlisle Wheeling*
A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You
The Door Into Summer
Tear Drop City
Goin' Down
Party*
Tapioca Tundra
For Pete's Sake

Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H84WlVbCCdo

this revive has gotten me totally re-obsessed, I need those Missing Link LPs

Love these guys (Monkees) but it's always gotten on my nerves when Mickey slips into that faux "British" enunciation. I know it was a thing but for some reason I have always cringed a little inside.

When does he do that?

"Clarksville", "Randy Scouse Git" to name a couple off the top of my head. Probably just those two but they've always stuck out for me. Haven't listened to them in years so maybe no longer a big deal.

I can't say I've ever noticed any especially British enunciation, I just thought that was his voice! But then, I'm not American, so maybe I wouldn't notice.

Can kinda hear "Lahst train to clahksville".

it's the way he says "again" in that one that does it, i think.