Frank Zappa: Classic or Dud?

Yeah, that album. It starts with a quasi-reggae groove but then there's a quasi-big band note-for-note transcription of the guitar solo for brass.xp

Was curious, so I tried to find out what Fripp thought of Zappa, and this was the first forum exchange I saw:

What do you think sets these two apart? What are the main differences in the compositional and instrumental approach?

Fripp is an arrogant asshole, even though he is a good musician...

I mean ...

Just found this from 1978:

Q: Are there any major rock n' roll bands aside from yourself that you do listen to?
ZAPPA: I like Queen. I like Gentle Giant.

On the other hand, I also saw reference to iirc a later interview where he claims to have never heard anything by Fripp or Jimmy Page so who knows.

Acc to this, he apparently played "Black Dog" and "When the Levee Breaks" on the radio in 1974: https://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/WSTM,_Chicago

No citation though

This thread has been vociferously trying to convince me that Zappa was too big an asshole, and his music too smug and hateful, to listen to. So out of spite I’m playing You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 2 tonight. Except for the improvised skit “Room Service” there’s no misogyny, goofiness is kept to a minimum (for a FZ record), and there’s some seriously blazing playing from everyone in the band.

I believe they did a Beatles medley on the same tour where they did Stairway.

Keith Emerson said in his memoirs that Lumpy Gravy changed all his thinking about music.

He hadn't realized it could be quite that shitty and pointless before?

Actually the original "Lumpy Gravy", before Zappa added all the tedious spoken word stuff, was pretty good.

Interesting that Eddie VH was the first choice. I think Dweezil said once that Eddie was the first musician to call their house when Frank died.

“ Every once and I while I wonder how Lou was chosen for that induction job. Here’s something on a Zappa borad, but don’t know how much I trust someone who doesn’t know who Doc Pomus is. http://forum.zappa.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13616#p326852 “

I believe they did a Beatles medley on the same tour where they did Stairway.

I saw that tour - no Beatles songs. Here's the set list.

I guess this is where that HOF story came from

https://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Zappa_Inducted_Into_The_Hall_Of_Fame

Where can the original Lumpy Gravy be heard?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qqtmhx_btI

Wow!

The Beatles medley known as Texas Medley (Norwegian Jim/Louisiana Hooker with Herpes/Texas Motel) plus a straight cover (iirc) of "I Am the Walrus" are on the only FZ bootleg I have. Looks like they came from 3/13/88, Springfield MA.

I actually find the spoken word segments moderately interesting, in a surreal, free-association kind of way.

...segments of Lumpy gravy...

Lou's speech was good actually

Yes, was pretty good. Although it still causes me no small amount of grief that nobody who edits that FZ wiki has heard of Doc Pomus.

well presumably not a big fan of songwriting

what the fuck...just noticed that Freak Out!, We're Only In It for the Money, and the Lumpy Money Project/Object (which includes the original Capitol mono edit of Lumpy Gravy) are missing from Spotify...

well presumably not a big fan of songwriting

First two are listed under The Mothers of Invention

^^Yeah, and MOFO is under Zappa solo.

...which is to say, there is a version of Freak Out on Zappa's page.

From 1969

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz9bn24rxrI

Still wondering if Lou actually liked any of Frank's music or was just sort of expanding or at least shoring up his own brand, given the overlap in fan base (that I myself observed anecdotally). Maybe he liked Ruben and the Jets, who knows. I recall that John- who was married to one of the GTOs! - had some problems with FZ, although the real keeper of the grudge was in fact Sterling.

Warhol hated on Zappa in his diaries, and this was in the '80s. He felt Zappa hogged all the credit for Moon Zappa's success with "Valley Girl."

I've never heard Lou Reed praise anything by Frank Zappa, I can't really imagine it being his thing at all. They both liked doo-wop, that's true. I think maybe Lou was trying to clean up his image by that stage and present himelf as a kind of venerable elder statesman of rock and roll? Or maybe it was connected to the Czech/Eastern European experience of the Velvets and Zappa being twin symbols of subversion.

Yes, that is how is I always thought about it, those last two sentences.

I never knew about this: https://www.altaonline.com/dispatches/a4456/miss-christine-rock-legend/

Just found this reference to the HOF induction: Zappa - C/D

todd is to me the corrected version of zapps: when he does a genre parody, like "wolfman Jack" or "you cried wolf," it's "i love this music, even if its teenage and corny, and i'm going to put my heart into it." for many year's I've thought that zappa/mothers are to clinton/p funk as todd is to Stevie W.

there can be little doubt that zappa strongly disliked lou reed and his milieu, and I strongly doubt that Vaclav Havel succeeded in changing his mind; and it could only be that Jon Landau or somebody similar convinced miserable old Lou that it would be in his benefit to say "I liked Frank and I know he liked me" at the induction. Dweezil —who while VJing on MTV described Lou's solo on "Video Violence," off of Mistrial, which I've never heard beyond "The Original Rapper," is the worst guitar solos in the history of anything— strongly denied that his dad had any use for Reed.

The whole thing re: Dweezil vs Ahmet is fascinating, and is rooted in Gail's domineering stewardship. Within Zappa fandom, I believe no one is more polarizing than she.

'

xpost: Dweezil said "Video Violence" featured the worst guitar solos in the history of anything.

Zappa picked All Tomorrow's Parties as one of his 30 favorite songs in the history of music upthread so he must have appreciated Lou somewhat

"Venus In Furs", I think? Yes, I can't imagine Lou would ever have returned the favour.

No, you're right it was "All Tomorrow's Parties", completely with Lou's raga lead guitar.

Maybe he just felt bad about an incident mentioned here and wanted to make up for it: https://www.criticsatlarge.ca/2013/10/the-wild-side-lou-reed-vs-frank-zappa.html

when he does a genre parody, like "wolfman Jack" or "you cried wolf," it's "i love this music
Wanted to say the same thing about Weird Al, who was mentioned upthread.

xp is there even a solo on "Video Violence"...isn't the whole thing Lou w/ careening lead under all tha nah-nah-nah's

The incident being

In between sets, Frank Zappa got up from his seat and walked up on the stage and sat behind the keyboard of Nico's B-3 organ. He proceeded to place his hands indiscriminately on the keyboard in a total, atonal fashion and screamed at the top of his lungs, doing a caricature of Nico's set, the one he had just seen. The words to his impromptu song were the names of vegetables like broccolli, cabbage, asparagus... This 'song' kept going for about a minute or so and then suddenly stopped. He walked off the stage and the show moved on. It was one of the greatest pieces of rock 'n roll theatre that I have ever seen."

New York had the Fugs, so I'm sure the Mothers didn't come as any great cultural shock to New Yorkers.

The Velvets didn't take kindly to the insult and Reed returned the favour. "Zappa is the single most untalented person I heard in my life," he sneered. ""He's a two-bit, pretentious academic, and he can't play rock 'n' roll, because he's a loser. And that's why he dresses funny. He's not happy with himself and I think he's right."

https://www.criticsatlarge.ca/2013/10/the-wild-side-lou-reed-vs-frank-zappa.html

oh ha xp

It was one of the greatest pieces of rock 'n roll theatre that I have ever seen."


jackoffmotion.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mXIL_LKvvI

Guy who wrote that long article also wrote 33 1⁄3 book on Trout Mask Replica that some people seem to like.

Reed calling Zappa a pretentious academic is tbh ludicrous considering it was Reed and not Zappa who got a formal university education and Reed's documented poetic aspirations are not more intrinsically rock'n'roll than Zappa's compositional aspirations.

One interesting fact that seems to have thus far gone unnoted is Zappa’s go-to Sabbath song changing from “Supernaut” to “Iron Man.”