Poll: Bandwagonesque v. Nevermind v. Loveless

"men have been wearing dresses onstage since the dawn of entertainment, doesn't mean it can't still be funny"

yes, of course, i just thought that kurt wasn't that funny. or good at wacky gestures or punk "statements". which is why i put the rolling stone cover up. cuz the corporate magazine t-shirt thing was just soooo lame.

wtf is going on in the last three seconds of that tfc clip

i actually like the old people arguing about nirvana aspect of this thread and wish ppl would stop complaining about it

re: the impact of the dress thing: all the ppl i knew in high school who liked this band maintained a sort of deliberate blind spot about that sort of behaviour, because it was a bit gay, and they couldn't be having with that

the corporate magazine t-shirt thing was just soooo lame.

True, but I kind of like his hair and sunglasses in that picture. (By the way, I'm not as convinced as Scott that either Kurdt or W.Axel did punk "wrong." I'm honestly not even sure what that means; they did punk righter than lots of supposed "real" punk and hardcore bands in the '80s/'90s/'00s who sold way less records, but then I'd say that about Michael Jackson, too. Not entirely convinced either Nirvana or Guns N Roses were punk rock bands per se, either. Nirvana were almost more a powerpop group, to be honest, at least when they were at their best. And GnR at their best played hard funky rock. But they both had a lot of self-and-passersby-destructive punk-like emotion and paranoia etc in their songs.)

"yes, of course, i just thought that kurt wasn't that funny."
90s guitar rock comedy-off!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJk2RNlj8EU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-j31YoEeRU

when I've been following an active band since their inception and they make a bad album, its really rare that they regain my interest...I'm a rather unforgiving bastard who doesn't expect bands to recover once they've started to slip

Strangely, this is something that Shakey and I apparently actually have in common. (For instance, I basically had zero interest in hearing Chinese Democracy last year. And when I finally got around to it, it just confirmed my skepticism.)

"By the way, I'm not as convinced as Scott that either Kurdt or W.Axel did punk "wrong."

i don't mean musically. i think they were both good pop stars who made good music. i mean publically. they were both so self-conscious and it used to embarrass me when they would make "punk" gestures or statements or act like they didn't give a fuck or whatever when it was SO obvious that they really did care. about their image and how they were viewed.

slash was way punk though.

I thought it was general consensus that Duff was the only member with punk cred in GNR.

Adler was the only one with funk cred, though.

But Scott, lots of punks (from the Stooges and Dolls and Pistols and Ramones and Clash and Black Flag and GG Allin and Bikini Kill on) totally self-conscoiously cared about their image and how they were viewed. Still not understanding how that's not punk. (Though I'm sort of playing devil's advocate, since I totally agree with you about their public gestures often being embarrassments.)

i mean attitude. not cred. dave grohl has punk "cred". how punk is he? not very!

i don't mean musically. i think they were both good pop stars who made good music. i mean publically. they were both so self-conscious and it used to embarrass me when they would make "punk" gestures or statements or act like they didn't give a fuck or whatever when it was SO obvious that they really did care. about their image and how they were viewed.

― scott seward, Tuesday, July 7, 2009 3:04 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

when has anyone ever not been embarrassing or self-conscious when making "punk" gestures!? like, hasn't that been status quo since the Sex Pistols, if not earlier?

xpost to xhuxk

also did Adler actually have "funk cred" in some concrete way like he played in funk bands or are you just saying he had some smoove beats?

Sarah Palin: Punk or Mod?

i mean, in a way, that's why so many kids loved and identified with kurt. he was often uncomfortable and miserable and awkward. he just happened to have the looks of a male model which is where the identification probably ended for most people. and maybe that's why i have some resentment directed toward kurt and grunge. punk got pretty after they came around. especially with the pop punk crowd. and punk had never REALLY been pretty previously (with the exception of the clash's male model bass player and some others). it was music for geeks and nerds and outcasts. after kurt, pretty people liked it too. and this bugged me. a little. cuz part of me will always be 16.

Gene Simmons used to make snarly noises about Cobain's looks in the mid nineties – "He's a beautiful guy! What'd he have to bitch and moan about?" etc.

really i think one of kurt's biggest redeeming features is how self-conscious and embarrassed he was, and thought he was such a poser and all the other bands were so much more real or artistic than him or whatever.

scott no offense but your posts on this thread have reminded me why i'm glad you haven't been posting on my 90s/00s sonic youth threads, lol

i take scott and chuck's points about Cobain's discomfort in the dresses, etc, and I meant what I said yesterday about Nirvana not making me question sexuality, but it was more subversive to watch the beautiful Cobain wearing dresses and making out with Kris Novoseic than an ugly man dressing like an ugly woman with lots of makeup like Nikki Sixx and Tommy Lee did.

did Adler actually have "funk cred" in some concrete way like he played in funk bands or are you just saying he had some smoove beats?

Mostly the latter, though as I recall both Adler and possibly Slash had some younger-days disco on their resumes. (Actually, Slash might get funk cred himself, for collaborating with the only guy ever to come out of Indiana with better dance moves, a higher voice, and more paranoid lyrics than Axl):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqDOsKKhb88

ugly man dressing like an ugly woman with lots of makeup like Nikki Sixx and Tommy Lee

Yeah, but Poison and Warrant (and Axl) were pretty, right? (Not so sure about those Britny Fox guys.)

(And actually, Dee Snider = both uglier and earlier than the Crue dudes.)

If Republicans love your band, I'm pretty sure your transvestism is non-threatening, and even possibly homophobic.

I don't know about "Punk not pretty"...Adam Ant???

Siouxsie Sioux ans Wendy O. Williams, too.

Wendy o_O Williams

I heard model/actress Elizabeth Hurley was in Crass.

Did you mean: "Elizabeth Hurley was in Crash."

No results found for "Elizabeth Hurley was in Crass.".

"scott no offense but your posts on this thread have reminded me why i'm glad you haven't been posting on my 90s/00s sonic youth threads, lol"

hahaha! i have to give SOME people a break. i also stay away from all smashing pumpkins threads and all latter-day flaming lips threads.

anyone prettier than paul simonon in punk?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_StfQ_dy7LhQ/SUwqSs0OB-I/AAAAAAAACv8/xyHgof4lEPM/s400/disneyrollergirl+paul+simonon.jpg

if he hadn't existed, bruce weber would have had to invent him.

http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?uid=AAAAAQAQvcdhTPGjVjgTQ6O-dJxVzwAAAAo39h8xvSlpFQfCp1i49J5l

That's Peter Murphy.

(xpost)

Paul looks like Nikki Sixx now, alas.

that guy looks very stoopid. he isn't feeling very comfortable in his outfit. wtf is he doing with his hands in the second photograph? it looks as if he had lost his handcuffs. what a git.

he just happened to have the looks of a male model

Kurt was cute. But male model cute? Really? For one thing, he was too short (for the runway).

blah blah blah

lol. Still hoping Bandwagonesque makes a respectable showing (I've given up the ghost on it winning).

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I like all three of these, but I gotta go with Loveless

I actually just bought my CD copy of Bandwagonesque a few months ago, replacing an old tape copy.

if it was a catholic education v bleach v isn't anything it would be more straightforward

Actually that would be much harder for me!!

Never got the love for A Catholic Education, but it sounds like the kind of album I should like. Must try again, I guess.

Not sure how one can list 28 albums supposedly better than Nevermind if you hadn't even heard it all. I loved Nirvana but when I heard it, I hated the production and some of the songs felt unfinished. I was all about Slint and MBV, Massive Attack, Talk Talk, Public Enemy and The Jesus Lizard. Nirvana grew on me later to sneak into top 10. I remember buying Bandwagonesque around Thanksgiving after seeing it in that Spin issue and like the Big Star-isms. But it barely made my top 25.

if it was a catholic education v bleach v isn't anything it would be more straightforward - how about In Utero vs. Thirteen vs. that Wire cover?

or everything flows vs love buzz vs you made me realise

hmmm.. now there's a poll!

I like all three of these, but I gotta go with Loveless

― da croupier, Monday, 13 July 2009 02:09 (4 hours ago) Permalink

how about omg! they're still making records? so boring! who cares? vs. kurt you fucker i can still barely listen to my nirvana records vs. who needs a sequel to Loveless? we have Belong now

loveless. no contest.

I missed this thread because I've been hiking the Appalachian trail for the last few weeks. I went with Nevermind b/c I like pop music and it's the best pop album of the three (on that front, "Lounge Act" over "Alcoholiday" over "Sometimes" but all three are hot). Its mass success felt like vindication of...something...at the time but that was just a dream. Nowadays we can just talk about the tunes, though each album scratches different itches, ergo the kinda distracted discussion here. I'd like to read more pro-Bandwagonesque here, just b/c we've talked about the other two many times before. "Alcoholiday"'s "there are things I want to do but I don't know if they will be with you" just kills, such insouciant ambivalence.