didn't they cover it's so easy ?can't remember.
― piscesboy, Wednesday, 4 September 2002 20:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 02:06 (twenty-one years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 02:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 02:17 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Sean (Sean), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 02:44 (twenty-one years ago) link
"My Michelle" and "Mr Brownstone"...good heavens, those are dreadful songs
I think so, too, but not in the way you mean. They actually cause dread in me. I recoil in horror at the blatant misogyny, the filth. But isn't that what they want me to do? I don't mean to excuse it as morally acceptable, but it's emotionally affecting as hell. Appetite may not be a great record, and I'm not especially interested in the technique of the playing on it, but it's an honest record. It's honestly fucked up, and a little disturbing. It's not just a show. Axl comes off as a real person on that record -- not a pleasant one, but a real one all the same. And it's really something.
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 02:45 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Sean (Sean), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 02:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 19:52 (twenty years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 19:55 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Tuesday, 29 July 2003 19:59 (twenty years ago) link
― TheMostBeautifulCoolestGirlEver, Wednesday, 7 April 2004 03:50 (twenty years ago) link
― TheMostBeautifulCoolestGirlEver, Wednesday, 7 April 2004 03:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 03:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 03:59 (twenty years ago) link
everything kenan says here = completely OTM. i don't know if GNR are the best metal band ever, but they're certainly the most INTERESTING one i can think of.
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 03:59 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 04:02 (twenty years ago) link
yeah!
― derrick (derrick), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 07:02 (twenty years ago) link
I find this an odd concept. there was a brief period when everyone thought that GnR sucked, but that was, coincidentally, the period when everyone thought that Nirvana was good. around the time that knee-jerk reactions against rock stars died down-- around the time that critics stopped giving a free pass for celebrity to any musician who feigned modesty, in some sort of Everyman inversion of the "rock god" trope-- most critics went back to acknowledging GNR as one of the best bands left carrying the blues-based riff rock torch through the '80s.
and the idea of "Appetite" as a "filler" album of any sort is just too weird for me to cognitively process in any way that might yield a response.
oh wait, this thread is three years old. nevermind!
― James, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 03:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― billstevejim (billstevejim), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 03:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― kid, Monday, 12 September 2005 02:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― donut Get Behind Me Carbon Dioxide (donut), Monday, 12 September 2005 02:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tino Troublemaker, Friday, 3 March 2006 13:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 3 March 2006 13:42 (eighteen years ago) link
― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 3 March 2006 14:46 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 3 March 2006 15:17 (eighteen years ago) link
Guns n Roses were such a special band..Fuck all Van Halen and Slayer... They're lookin' like shits with instruments, their music is too similar to other bands..nuthin' really excitin'...
haha
― Charlie Howard, Monday, 28 April 2008 10:56 (sixteen years ago) link
Haven't read the thread, and somebody has probably already pointed this out, but the assumptions behind it are pretty confused. For whatever it's worth, this is better than Sabbath or Slayer (and probably Zeppelin, and maybe Metallica) ever did in P&J:
The 1988 Pazz & Jop Critics Poll
Albums 26. Guns N' Roses: Appetite for Destruction (Geffen) 190 (14) *
Singles 3. Guns N' Roses: "Sweet Child o' Mine" (Geffen) 30 13. Guns N' Roses: "Welcome to the Jungle"/"Mr. Brownstone" (Geffen) 20
[They were written in about as "just another Sunset Strip hair metal band" for maybe six months in 1987, as I recall -- before the songs wound up on MTV and the radio, and the album started to sell. But to pretend "everybody" -- meaning critics -- disliked them back then is the real revisionism here. And right, metal mags kinda loved them from the git-go.)
― xhuxk, Monday, 28 April 2008 11:56 (sixteen years ago) link
Appetite was 26 out of 40. Led Zeppelin IV was 30 out of 30.
― gabbneb, Monday, 28 April 2008 12:45 (sixteen years ago) link
yeah my assumptions here were wrong
― J0hn D., Monday, 28 April 2008 13:02 (sixteen years ago) link
I have grown to really kinda love them as icons...still think Appetite has maybe three good songs
I'm just the opposite - Appetite (which I thought had three good songs the week it came out -- and "Mr. Brownstone" was one of them! -- though I grew to like most of the rest pretty quickly, and loved all of it within a few years) is my favorite rock album of the past quarter century, and I care about them less and less as human beings as time goes on. Haven't played either Use Your Illusion (which I always thought were pretty spotty) for years, and can't imagine when I will again, though I doubt I'll ever sell my copies. Have exactly ZERO interest in Chinese Democracy -- In fact, I kind of hope it doesn't come out in my lifetime, sincee if it does, somebody will probably want me to write about it, which means I'll have to have an opinion about it. (Still like both Lies and Spaghetti Incident a whole lot, though.)
― xhuxk, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:10 (sixteen years ago) link
This cassette didn't leave my walkman for years. I delivered a lot of papers while Axl was screeching about smack and porn.
― QuantumNoise, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:14 (sixteen years ago) link
wait, me and Chuck are looking at things from different angles? Unimaginable! :)
Did you get that new-ish book by their photographer, Chuck? It's fascinating stuff for a whole lot of reasons - the dude saved the setlists from pretty much all their gigs: it seems to be the case that they wrote pretty much all their stuff in one fast blur of activity before the Geffen signing, and, having exhausted that stuff by the end of Use Your Illusion, collapsed/threw in the towel (nb this is my reading, not what the book explicitly contends)
― J0hn D., Monday, 28 April 2008 13:22 (sixteen years ago) link
Nah, didn't get that one -- or if I did, it went right into the donation pile (which maybe it shouldn't have, judging from what you're saying, but that's the way I roll with 90% of rock books, and 99% of rock photo books, that the mailman brings.)
― xhuxk, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:34 (sixteen years ago) link
appetite is a fantastic record and eclipses by a long margin anything they coughed out afterwards. i don't think the argument that it has only three good songs can really stand up; every track is focused with good old fashioned guitar based hook. arguably one of the most iconic opening riffs in history, and the musical influences behind the record are extremely vital and channeled in ambitious and exciting ways.
― Charlie Howard, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:35 (sixteen years ago) link
I've always believed GnR stop writing top notch material when Izzy left the band, which was during the making of Use Your Illusion, I think.
― QuantumNoise, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:38 (sixteen years ago) link
I don't know if they promo'd out the book or not, I ordered a copy - it's called "Reckless Road" and the url for it is http://www.recklessroad.com/ - worth looking into, not beautifully written or anything but as a documentation of that before-it-went-completely-worldwide moment it's pretty great
but, important caveat probably, I'm not on anybody's book promo list so I don't see a lot of rock books photo or otherwise, and I may be easily impressed
― J0hn D., Monday, 28 April 2008 13:47 (sixteen years ago) link
I really, really like the Chinese Democracy tracks (whatever iteration of the "final" versions they may be) I have in my iPod. As I've said before, they sound exactly nothing like any previous Guns N' Roses work and a whole fuckin' lot like particularly hard-rockin' J-pop. If you stripped out Axl's vocals and replaced him with Ayumi Hamasaki, the songs would be just as awesome. I really hope the album comes out someday, and I hope it sounds like these six songs.
― unperson, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:57 (sixteen years ago) link
http://i27.tinypic.com/160zvuv.jpg
― jhøshea, Monday, 28 April 2008 13:59 (sixteen years ago) link
As I've said before, they sound exactly nothing like any previous Guns N' Roses work and a whole fuckin' lot like particularly hard-rockin' J-pop.
yeah this is a great call - they have that by-committee feel. (My friend Tom on Japanese pop in the eighties: "It's like a position paper about what popular music is like.") I happen to kind of like that - I thought "Better" was a wonderful song.
― J0hn D., Monday, 28 April 2008 14:10 (sixteen years ago) link
"For whatever it's worth, this is better than Sabbath or Slayer (and probably Zeppelin, and maybe Metallica) ever did in P&J"
Who gives a flying fuck? GnR areen't fit to do those band's laundry. The post above is correct, when Stradlin left the band, they were toast. I got that straight from Slash's autobiog, which I picked up in LAX. Pretty entertaining read.
― Bill Magill, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:17 (sixteen years ago) link
i certainly wouldnt let slash do my laundry - maybe axl
― jhøshea, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:20 (sixteen years ago) link
Er, my post had nothing to do with how "good" those bands were (though I'd personally take GnR over Slayer or Metallica); it had to do with how much critics liked them, which was what the subject of this thread was to begin with. (And to my ears, they started going downhill as soon as Adler left.)
Phil's post makes those Chinese Democracy tracks sound interesting, maybe, though I've never really connected with J-Pop. And I just can't see going out of my way to actually track down the songs and hear them. If they somehow land in lap someday, maybe I'll listen to them and wind up liking them, who knows. (I've "heard" a couple of the supposed CD tracks, usually when somebody was all "you really really really need to listen to this," which just added a no-fun air of "important to have an opinion" obligation to an already dire situation.)
So when is somebody going to start a thread about Motley Crue revisionism? To me, they're the real dime-a-dozen hair-hack band who were widely acknowledged as such at the time, but over the decades have somehow turned "important", thanks to tabloid stuff I'll never have any interest in.
― xhuxk, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:32 (sixteen years ago) link
Sorry chuck, your're right, the thread's about their rep. with critics.
Crue did one good album, then really lost it. The same could definitely be said about GnR.
According to Slash, Adler made the rest of the band seem like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. They had no choice but to let him go.
― Bill Magill, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:41 (sixteen years ago) link
fuck that lies is great and the use yr illusions are pretty awzom in their own way
― jhøshea, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:43 (sixteen years ago) link
Izzy was GnR's tether to vintage Stone boogie.
― QuantumNoise, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:49 (sixteen years ago) link
The illusions blow
xpost
― Bill Magill, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:50 (sixteen years ago) link
u blow... whores!
― jhøshea, Monday, 28 April 2008 14:53 (sixteen years ago) link
1st Crue album is pretty great - Chuck you gotta rep for "Live Wire," don'tcha? that's a terrific track - and I have affection for Shout at the Devil but yeah, I think Crue got big mainly by sticking around and maybe by being good live (I don't know - never saw 'em). But does anybody really say "they were a great band" as people do about GnR?
― J0hn D., Monday, 28 April 2008 15:02 (sixteen years ago) link
this is true-ish, yeah, but I think they're more infamous than important -- the tabloid stuff (and the justifiably popular tell-all book) probably helped keep their profile high during the years they were making flop comeback attempts and squabbling and doing horrible side projects. but it's not like anyone more than before is pretending that Dr. Feelgood is as good as Appetite, or that their other albums are by and large worth a shit. I think they just happen to be the one hair metal band with their shit together enough now to capitalize on nu-hair bands like Buckcherry and Hinder and do something like this "Cruefest" nonsense. (xpost, what John said)
― Alex in Baltimore, Monday, 28 April 2008 15:04 (sixteen years ago) link