They have NICK CAVE polls now? I want one!: The ILM Nick Cave Poll Voting Thread (#106 in a series)

Though may just reflect Cave loving Larry Young. I 5hink he said Grinderman was heavily influenced by Lawrence of Newark.

What is your view on the BBC decision on censorship of certain words in Fairytale of New York this Christmas?
JOSEPH, THE HAGUE, HOLLAND

What is your view on the BBC 'amendments' to Fairytale of New York?
ROY, LINLITHGOW, SCOTLAND

Dear Joseph and Roy,

Truly great songs that are as emotionally powerful as Fairytale of New York are very rare indeed. Fairytale is a lyrical high wire act of dizzying scope and potency, and it rightly takes its place as the greatest Christmas song ever written. It stands shoulder to shoulder with any great song, from any time, not just for its sheer audacity, or its deep empathy, but for its astonishing technical brilliance.

One of the many reasons this song is so loved is that, beyond almost any other song I can think of, it speaks with such profound compassion to the marginalised and the dispossessed. With one of the greatest opening lines ever written, the lyrics and the vocal performance emanate from deep inside the lived experience itself, existing within the very bones of the song. It never looks down on its protagonists. It does not patronise, but speaks its truth, clear and unadorned. It is a magnificent gift to the outcast, the unlucky and the broken-hearted. We empathise with the plight of the two fractious characters, who live their lonely, desperate lives against all that Christmas promises — home and hearth, cheer, bounty and goodwill. It is as real a piece of lyric writing as I have ever heard, and I have always felt it a great privilege to be close friends with its creator, Shane MacGowan.

Now, once again, Fairytale is under attack. The idea that a word, or a line, in a song can simply be changed for another and not do it significant damage is a notion that can only be upheld by those that know nothing about the fragile nature of songwriting. The changing of the word ‘faggot’ for the nonsense word ‘haggard’ destroys the song by deflating it right at its essential and most reckless moment, stripping it of its value. It becomes a song that has been tampered with, compromised, tamed, and neutered and can no longer be called a great song. It is a song that has lost its truth, its honour and integrity — a song that has knelt down and allowed the BBC to do its grim and sticky business.

I am in no position to comment on how offensive the word ‘faggot’ is to some people, particularly to the young — it may be deeply offensive, I don’t know, in which case Radio 1 should have made the decision to simply ban the song, and allow it to retain its outlaw spirit and its dignity.

In the end, I feel sorry for Fairytale, a song so gloriously problematic, as great works of art so often are, performed by one of the most scurrilous and seditious bands of our time, whose best shows were so completely and triumphantly out of order, they had to be seen to believed.

Yet, time and time again the integrity of this magnificent song is tested. The BBC, that gatekeeper of our brittle sensibilities, forever acting in our best interests, continue to mutilate an artefact of immense cultural value and in doing so takes something from us this Christmas, impossible to measure or replace. On and on it goes, and we are all the less for it.

Love, Nick

someone should write in and tell him Roy was not asking an accurate question in good faith

reminds me of my sadly passed Gran who felt the same about the removal of The Black & White Minstrel Show from xmas

btw, if folks looking to do some random relistening don't know, there's an official 24-hour "Bad Seed TeeVee" channel on youtube - video clips, live performances and doco excerpts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbWdmZ7hXY4

had never actually bothered to listen to nocturama before due to its bad rep and it's definitely one of his weakest albums. "babe i'm on fire" is fantastic but the rest is a real drag, some of it the most adult contemporary he's ever been, and it doesn't hold together well as an album at all.

from memory no more shall we part wasn't much chop either - I remember those two LPs back to back marked a real low point in my engagement with his music

on the other hand preparing a response for this poll reminded me of this (IMO) gem - if I were nick cave this would be a setlist regular!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzp8I-naJOg

which in turn reminds me of the song he did with tim friese-greene for the batman forever soundtrack which I've heard him say was the one time he made a corrupt sellout songwriting decision and vowed never to do so again... at the time I kind of liked it but it's a shit nick cave song I guess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D17Tih8B-z0

no more shall we part isn't a favourite of mine either but there's hints of where they went on abbatoir blues/lyre of orpheus on it and it generally sounds more alive

Funnily enough "...Till the End of the World" was the pretty much the first thing on my shortlist. The carnage in the verses (and the delivery of it) is arguably kinda preposterous, but that may have been the appeal for schoolkid me.

it’s always been a huge favorite of mine

My #1 will either be "Mercy Seat" or this motherf***er:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26qQ4ciy-QA

Amazing how many great covers he's recorded. 'Kicking Against the Pricks' definitely makes my ballot. In terms of tracks, "Stagger Lee" and this Johnny Cash cover will place high on mine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgffYJO_Qfs

I love his version of “Running Scared”. And “Long Black Veil”. And “Somethings Gotten Hold of My Heart”

ok fine the whole album is a+

in case folks don't know, they did an 18-minute version of O'Malley's Bar on a BBC radio session in '96, that's on the B-Sides & Rarities box

Cave's catalogue includes several dozen covers outside of Pricks btw, right up to this contribution to a T-Rex tribute album from six months ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc7mDChiiNU

(Jon Wurster on drums,btw)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJW1zG_GMAc

It's ridiculous, and I love it

As I re-listen to the disappointing albums, I can confirm "God Is in the House" is the worst song he's ever written. Cave's songs are at their best when it hard to determine what he thinks of the characters, including himself. Jello Biafra-levels of easily digested irony and sarcasm just blow his whole game.

my vote for worst song is "the curse of millhaven" which is totally insufferable for its entire 7 minutes. it's just circus music and really did not need a total of thirteen choruses. i would hate it enough if it was just a normal length but it really has to drag things out. "god in the house" is pretty bad though yeah

today i realised the krautrock + organ + noise makes dig lazarus dig!!! almost a stereolab album

......I like "The Curse of Millhaven", it's fun

I'm not sure what the worst Nick Cave song is but I'm pretty confident it's on Nocturama.

It's Rock of Gibraltar, without a moment's hesitation.

narrowing down to 20 songs is hard, gonna have to really go with my gut

I haven't really needed to hear "Curse of Millhaven" since high school but I have fond memories of it. I was listening to Lyre of Orpheus and I do not get the title track at all, some very nice songs later on the album though.

Big fan of this, always cracks me up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZAarUlIhn0

20 songs is tough

Wee feature in the FT today on his "Cave Things" shop

https://www.ft.com/content/3b360711-b18b-43da-b4de-36dbb0d40bd1

Always immaculately tailored, he has been described as “the greatest living songwriter” by Flea of the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

^^^ this made me laugh considering Nick is famously quoted with

I’m forever near a stereo saying, ‘What the fuck is this garbage?’ And the answer is always the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

lmao

I would be curious to hear Nick cover "Give it Away"

very easy to imagine "What I got I gotta give it to your momma" etc over the intro to "Get It On"

I'm pretty sure Flea understands that his band is the butt of many jokes and the object of much derision. I read his book, and the dude is pretty hip, has good taste and is obviously a good musician, yet he'll forever be tainted as a member of the Monsters of Mook. It's kind of tragic.

Nearly all of Flea's recording and performing endeavours outside of the Chi-Peps show him to have fine and interesting taste.

"god in the house"

as a pretty regular seeing nick cave live kinda guy, this song becoming a setlist staple has been both inexplicable and unbearable

......I like "The Curse of Millhaven", it's fun

I love Curse of Millhaven too. It being simply Henry Lee speeded up gives it additional poignancy the lyrics perhaps don't warrant. I feel moved by this psychopathic stock character brought to life just to have (very) comical rhymes hung off her, which is a trick he pulls off multiple times on Murder Ballads. Saw it in an encore at Brixton in the early 2000s - that was a thrilling few minutes.

well I made it like four tracks into Ghosteeen, that album is soporific in a bad way

completely blown away by AB/LoO and DLD, so I think it's a win overall in terms of catching up

Skeleton Tree is uninspiring as well but not as boring as the new one

as per sic's great post above, it turns out that my favorite thing about Nick Cave might have been Mick Harvey

As I re-listen to the disappointing albums, I can confirm "God Is in the House" is the worst song he's ever written. Cave's songs are at their best when it hard to determine what he thinks of the characters, including himself. Jello Biafra-levels of easily digested irony and sarcasm just blow his whole game.

And I like God is in the House too! The whole of No More Shall We Part (as the title suggests) is about the weirdness of being domesticated. Maybe a few years earlier this would have been a straightforwardly sarcastic song, but from As I Sat Sadly By Her Side onwards the guy's writing songs about becoming a bit like the kind of people who are in God is in the House. Sitting indoors, judging the neighbours, scared of the world. He's hamming it up, for sure, as usual, but I don't think it's clear at all what he thinks of the characters in God is in the House - he kinda gets where they're coming from!

well I made it like four tracks into Ghosteeen, that album is soporific in a bad way

I haven't been a fan of latter-day Nick Cave in general, and this one sticks out because it's ranked so high in the year-end polls. Except for Dig!!! Lazarus Dig!!! (which was like a revitalization after the shot in the arm from Grinderman), a lot of the later stuff sounds much less compelling to me even when the inspiration has been credited to harrowing circumstances. I'll give them another chance after this poll - I'm curious to see what makes the best tracks portion.

my take:

a lot of the later stuff sounds much less compelling to me even especially when the inspiration has been credited to harrowing circumstances

no more shall we part is kind of a slog (same with boatman, to be really real), but there are two or three of his very best songs nestled on there, including "as i sat sadly by her side" imo

If sleeve ever covers "Moon Song," he's swapping out the Clapton lyrics with Cave references.

I'm glad I have no idea what that means

I admire Boatman more than I love it. Some great tracks, but it doesn't really sustain itself from end to end.

it does have "lime tree arbour," which is one of his very best ballads

Brompton Oratory one of my alltime favorites -i love Boatman’s Call so much

and There is A Kingdom is great too!

I love "Brompton Oratory," that's going on my ballot. I think it's great in small doses, but it feels a bit lacking when I listen to all 52+ minutes of it. The music is fairly minimal, which actually puts more burden on basic stuff like the tunes, the lyrics, etc. and it's tough building a whole album around that, so my hat's off to him for trying.

um that record easily has three of my top ten on it, none of which have been mentioned. and generally I prefer rocking Seeds! but those songs are undeniable IMO.

as a whole-record listen, yes is is a sloggy overlong breakup album, but the highs are so high for me (personal associations noted)

The beginning 6 song run on Boatman’s Call is so good. “Lime Tree Arbour” will definitely make the shortlist.

i always think of Boatman as a collection of secular hymns
i dont know if its exactly what he was going for
def v ...reverential? vibes

also reminds me VERY specifically of that year & the boring suburban house i was renting & listening to the album nonstop staring at my bedroom wall

it's a breakup album for me, hence its power

i found ghosteen to be very dull on first listen until i got to the second disc which has more movement and then the rest of the album completely opened up to me and now it's solidly my second favourite album he's ever done, only just behind abbatoir blues/lyre of orpheus

boatman's call has never quite clicked with me though, it's got some very good moments but as a whole it's a bit much. not bad but not yet a favourite either

also reminds me VERY specifically of that year & the boring suburban house i was renting & listening to the album nonstop staring at my bedroom wall

LMAO, I can see it being especially good on a loop under those circumstances.

it's a breakup album for me, hence its power

Weird seeing that after you put down his mournful albums for being soporofic, but regardless, I will agree it's moving for that reason