pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

i like how this thread is still serving unthawed 2004 era p4k opinions at a weekly clip

that doesn’t excuse any abuse stronger than “cracker”

yes notable “cracker” Alfred

(The “Uncle” was added recently, when the rock band Cracker objected.)

i like how this thread is still serving unthawed 2004 era p4k opinions at a weekly clip

A weekly clip? Most of the regular complaints in this thread involve poor editing – which is even more relevant now than in 2004 (due to Condé Nast).

we went over “they only reviews wilco and white guitar music” like 2-3 weeks ago and Austin stopped short of posting the rough draft of the manifesto he’ll post when he shoots up p4k hq like a week after that

isn’t the new yorker condé nast? that’s like the best edited publication in the world. i do love reading you guys fuss with the editing do :)

flopson at 3:05 28 Nov 20

we went over “they only reviews wilco and white guitar music” like 2-3 weeks ago 

i honestly don't think it matters what they do in this respect people will just keep saying it

Are you thinking of the “they’re reviewing a lot of reissues these days?” discussion? I think that was the context re: Wilco

(admittedly I don’t remember the blow-by-blow exchange)

not to pick on table but the context was exactly what i said:

I guess I just stopped reading it as much because of what has been pointed out, that so many of the reviews and news focus on shit that doesn't matter to me...aka contemporary guitar driven music, which is overwhelmingly mediocre.

― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Saturday, November 7, 2020 11:14 AM (three weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

just counted, of 112 reviews published so far in November, 22 (19%) could be considered "guitar music"

I counted with a very "big tent" approach so everything from Phoebe Bridgers to Thou/ERR to Hendrix counts so even within that category its certainly not just what's perceived as "Pitchfork" bands

hmm, I agree that is a counterintuitive observation by table.

everyone knows it’s more diverse than it used to be but it shouldn’t be exaggerated, it’s still post-indie in its outlook & coverage. that doesn’t have to be a problem but it’s not a misperception based on years ago- people younger than the kid a review can see it. it’s not just about guitar music any more but a certain kind of limited eclecticism the scope of which was more or less already defined about a decade ago

I still think it’s a lot better than it was

'limited eclecticism' is one of the big problems with it though and one of the reasons its canons are so tiresome

we were just talking about how they review albums with like 200 Bandcamp streams lol

I guess it means something when the inception of this thread involved a freak-out over the (prank) suggestion that Pfork was going to start reviewing pop albums; and now we’re debating just how much vestigial indie sensibility continues to infect the site.

I mean we should just accept we'll be here moving the goalposts until global warming cooks us like rotisserie chickens

i agree that p4k c 2020 has a fairly consistent voice and the parameters of its taste are influenced (partially) by its past. it’s not allmusic.com. but it is mostly a group of people writing their opinions about albums; Alfred didn’t give mjb a 7/10 because of the vestiges of p4k’s indie sensibility, that’s just his opinion of that album. if u know him as a critic u know there are many albums he would give 9/10s to that would shit on any vestige of indie sensibility

...and many indie classics he would give 7/10s (or lower)

yea hes wrong tho that album rules. its just like ... not even a controversial album where having a counterintuitive stance provokes especially interesting conversation. it fits in w the long (continuing) strain of undervaluing R&B! what did they give the brandy album this year, a 6.something?

its not irritating bc they're supposed to represent some hardwired canon but bc its reinforcing all the laziest critical impulses, that it happens to have accidentally happened bc alfred was permitted to be idiosyncratic on a large platform is beside the point

I chose to review My Life because I had a few observations about MJB accumulated over the years and this album I've long been ambivalent about served as the vehicle. It IS true that, unknowingly, the score dovetails with Pitchfork's attitude toward R&B before, say, 2016.

I'm glad, though, I got to review K Michelle a few years ago! I was not responsible for the score lol.

i dont really care about the scores, don’t disagree on them underrating r&b. but they do review a lot of r&b imo

I don’t think the Brandy album was very good, and there are better / more noteworthy r&b albums they ignore or which the individual reviewers undervalue (but that’s a matter of opinion I guess).

On a positive note, I loved Maura’s coverage of the excellent pair of Amerie EPs a few years back.

The Brandy album was amazing imo and if there's a more interesting or well-written R&B album from this year if like to hear it

the Chloe v Halle is rather good. So's the K Michelle.

I don’t think my personal R&B tastes dovetail with the consensus, so I won’t press the point

"we were just talking about how they review albums with like 200 Bandcamp streams lol"

this doesn't dispel the idea of limited eclecticism at all! from what i've seen pfork is typically only covering stuff with 200 bandcamp streams if it either falls neatly within the old guard p4k taste margins (straight punk/indie) or it's niche stuff in 'cool' non rock genres that doen't do huge numbers but none the less is trending globally and/or socially aligned with the right tastemakers and artists (resident advisor approved dance stuff on trendy labels, shabaka type beat neo jazz, fashion adjacent euro experimental electronic, friends of earl sweatshirt, etc, etc)

it would be cool as fuck if pfork reviewed records with 200 bandcamp streams that sounded like 2020 mary but they don't for the same reason they still think it's acceptable to give her shit a 7/10 when they would never ever do the same to idk slanted and enchanted

That's probably a 7.0 too tbh

we went over “they only reviews wilco and white guitar music” like 2-3 weeks ago

missed this discussion but this is a ludicrous assertion

"That's probably a 7.0 too tbh"

dunno i've never heard it

how far out does P4k plan its daily reviews, anyone know? couple weeks? month or more?

We get calls to action every few weeks. Deadlines are usually at least a week before release.

Xp noz - what about the ones column? i don’t read it frequently but it seems like it covers regional rap with low streaming numbers. most recent song covered is ‘punchline’ by fl jitt, which has 200 likes on soundcloud 5 days after the p4k post and 42 monthly soundcloud listeners

The Ones is great, he finds so much cool stuff and I've never heard of it

it would be cool as fuck if pfork reviewed records with 200 bandcamp streams that sounded like 2020 mary

i guess that would be cool...? does that even exist?

unlimited eclecticism isn’t possible. to you, limited eclecticism means not covering artists with 200 streams that sounds like mary j blige, to lj it means not writing rave reviews of a histrionic welsh guy reading his phd thesis into a distorted mic over some spaz ectopic lo-fi beats. you can never both be satisfied by one group of people who obviously bring their own tastes into consideration when choosing what to cover

I don’t know who “2020 Mary” would necessarily be – but Summer Walker’s fantastic Life on Earth EP got a middling/negative write-up and a 6.7 rating. (At least it was reviewed, I guess.)

To lay all my cards on the table – here’s a gripe I posted in the rolling r&b thread earlier this year:

Kaash Paige's new album is relegated to a half-dismissive item in Pitchfork's weekly rap column (which "covers songs, mixtapes, albums, Instagram freestyles, memes, dances, weird tweets, fashion trends—and anything else that catches our attention in the world of hip-hop").

Glad it "caught their attention," I guess. Maybe her next "weird tweet" will get more notice from them.

― Get your filthy hands off my asp (morrisp), Friday, August 21, 2020 2:13 PM (three months ago)

(Kaash is one of the best/coolest/most exciting new artists, IMO – and her album is awesome.)

The Brandy album was amazing imo and if there's a more interesting or well-written R&B album from this year id like to hear it

that masego album is entirely laudable too!

i dont get what forks' point is. that there's lots of good R&B so its ok that none of it gets Fiona level scores, even by legacy artists who are pillars of the form?

it's ok if pitchfork reviews every record forever with a pic of a different ape giving itself a bubbler tbf

the ones is cool for covering lesser known artists but that's track blogging, basically a running annotated playlist, i'm talking about actual long form criticism

and yeah i guess most of the would be marys of today probably sound like summer walker but then them reviewing the actual summer walker is not the answer because she is a huge pop star, not someone with 200 bandcamp sales. there is for instance tons of summer/sza type music being made by lesser known artists, check something like the crystal sounds youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=videos there is more music being made than ever in almost every genre right now and almost none of it is being looked at seriously by "actual music critics" i would love to read 1000 words about what makes one of these artists special from someone with unique knowledge of and passion for the subject but that's obviously not the way anything works anymore none of this matters and music criticism is completely over

err https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=videos

i don't know why it's not letting me post that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrystalSoun

ok fuck it i give up you can just google it

Looks like Crystal Sounds is a promotional platform for “upcoming artists.” If some of them are special, I imagine they’ll get there, no?

(or to my earlier points – if they can’t appreciate Summer’s EP, and don’t think Kaash is worth reviewing at all, I don’t have a lot of confidence in their ability to suss out obscure diamonds in the rough. there are already plenty of major-label R&B artists that they could be giving more attention to.)