Poll: Bandwagonesque v. Nevermind v. Loveless

"And no irony or anything.. just straight up "Yeah, Amy Grant is better than Nirvana.. that's how cool I am, that I contain an opinion that's just so subversive"

LOTS of people prefer amy grant to nirvana!

I'm sure they do, but why discuss this on a thread comparing 3 alternative rock albums??

Also of all the bands to pull out, Nickelback really isn't bad. It's not like they're pulling a Coldplay where they're doing bland middlebrow shit very, very badly; they do bland middlebrow shit very, very well and most people who object to them object to that entire milieu.

nirvana begat stp who begat creed who begat all the other horrible constipation rock that gets played ad nauseum on the radio. there is definitely a line from nirvana to nickleback.

i don't like nickelback's songs. they are dreary and completely unmemorable to me. i hear them on the radio and i go BLAH.

xp scott but black sabbath and the beatles and flipper and black flag and the pixies and the vaselines and blah blah blah begat nirvana so by that logic thank you, flipper, for nickelback?

There's also a line from Nirvana to Lil Wayne.. The Beatles also influenced lots of bullshit.

It's not one band's fault that other shitty bands have existed.

Finally seeing MBV live this year gave me a new appreciation of Loveless, but I still don't listen to it that often. I remember seeing Smells Like Teen Spirit on MTV and just thinking "no, not for me." Ignored them forevermore. So Teenage Fanclub gets the vote, just for being the most twee of the three, which is where my heart was at the time.

Trying to remember what the biggest three releases of 1991 would have been for me. Julian Cope's Peggy Suicide for sure, he was my favorite and it was a revelation after the mediocre My Nation Underground and the start of an epic run of yearly releases that would continue until 1996. Pavement's Perfect Sound Forever 10", my gang was wild about Pavement even before Slanted and Enchanted came out and PSF seemed to be the pinnacle. Third would probably be Glass Arcade, since Sarah Records was on an absolute tear from 1990 to 1992 and could do no wrong to my ears.

We did listen to that Public Enemy album in my car all the time, but that was probably because people riding in my car loathed Julian Cope and Sarah Records and would always insist on the Public Enemy that resided permanently in the car's tape case since I never played it in the house. I still love "Lost at Birth." That siren! The whole album sounds like a funhouse ride at Astroworld though.

this thread is taking flight at last

"I'm sure they do, but why discuss this on a thread comparing 3 alternative rock albums??"

it's a thread about three supposedly great albums from 1991. mentioning OTHER supposedly great albums from 1991 hardly seems out of bounds.

you could argue that "safesurfer" has the best guitar solo of 1991

btw I have to vote Nirvana here because at the time I only knew "Soon" (which I loved but didn't bother following up on until 6 years later) and I have always hated Teenage Fanclub without hesitation or reservation

btw i voted Loveless as I listen to it regularly vs. really only putting on Nirvana demos anymore vs. still never having heard a single Teenage Fanclub song

Nirvana ultimately mean more to me than Amy Grant, but Heart in Motion is almost as good as Nevermind. What's so hard to understand?

"xp scott but black sabbath and the beatles and flipper and black flag and the pixies and the vaselines and blah blah blah begat nirvana so by that logic thank you, flipper, for nickelback?"

lots of bands took a dreary watered-down version of nirvana's sound to the bank. nobody did this with flipper. though i do think nirvana themselves were a watered-down version of pixies, husker du, etc, they did have someone in the band with a knack for a catchy tune. very few of the post-nirvana bands did.

Amy Grant is super nice. Like, amazingly stunningly nice.

some folks here in need of a raggetting

― lynndie englisher (country matters), Monday, July 6, 2009 4:55 PM (1 hour ago)

otm. loveless DOES have huge hooks and lots of them, but i'm not entirely sure that's even the point

xp

nirvana begat stp who begat creed who begat all the other horrible constipation rock that gets played ad nauseum on the radio. there is definitely a line from nirvana to nickleback.

― scott seward, Monday, July 6, 2009 6:05 PM (4 minutes ago)

alright but so what, MBV gave rise to a bunch of shitty indie all around us presently. i'm not gonna go to perry-length challops and say nickelback arent god-awful, but it's not like everyone influenced by MBV is any good at all

i don't care if bands rip off other bands till the cows come home! as long as they have something of their own to bring to the table. like a good song. jack white just reminded me of the pixies and the gun club and lots of other people, but he had some catchy tunes. thus, i allowed him to live.

Voted for Nevermind. I listened to bad Robyn Hitchcock instead of Teenage Fanclub in 1991, and didn't discover Loveless until six years later. I'm amazed that I knew Inspiral Carpets, Blur, Slowdive, etc and heard no MBV at all.

and to be inundated by dreary bands who ripped off nirvana but who didn't have the talent of nirvana and to hear their horrible moaning for a decade or more is a bit much, thanks. a thousand shitty bands who ripped off unplugged nirvana at that!

I'm not hating on Amy Grant.. I know the album well and I appreciate its strong yet timely production values and songwriting, and she's an ok singer, but I was 11 years old at the time and I listened to practically anything my parents brought home.. In 2009 I'm throwing on this CD for nothing more than memories and laughs, as contemporary Christian music normally is not something I can stomach.

strong yet timely production values and songwriting

could say this about Nevermind tbh.

i don't care if bands rip off other bands till the cows come home!

But that's 'cause you like the Cows, Scott! You even said so upthread.

New Nickelback single "Burn It To The Ground" is actually fun (rocking "Children Of The Grave" groove and dorky lyrics about having no shirt or class and all), fwiw. (Though obviously I'm just trying to be "cool" and "subversive" for saying so, right.) Don't think I've liked any previous single by them that much, though.

Anyone ensconced in the Christian pop scene at the time, can you describe the furor over Amy Grant going secular? As devastating or as pivotal as Dixie Chicks rejecting Bush?

Right now I'd rather put up with a hundred Heart in Motion clones.

Also: if I didn't know one jot about Amy Grant's beliefs, I wouldn't peg HIM as Christian rock.

I listened to bad Robyn Hitchcock instead of Teenage Fanclub in 1991

Perspex Island > Bandwagonesque

I still own that one!

I wouldn't peg HIM as Christian rock

Actually, I think they're more goth.

xhuxk, wasn't so much complaining about you including that album as that it was mentioned in the 2 posts that followed.. Out of all the albums you mentioned.. I like your list.

I'm trying to remember what my favorite albums were in 1991. Have a feeling that what I liked most wasn't anything that had come out that year. Vaguely remember a number of things by bands/musicians I liked coming out that year that were all kinda disappointing -- Out of Time, some Morrissey album, the Ministry album mentioned upthread ...

SERIOUSLY can we talk about Yerself Is Steam a bit more here?

"Amy Grant is super nice. Like, amazingly stunningly nice."

i think she's sexy too! in that nice wholesome clean white teeth kinda way.

has anyone mentioned this album yet?

http://www.touchandgorecords.com/images/catalog/fullsize/277-1.jpg

"Also: if I didn't know one jot about Amy Grant's beliefs, I wouldn't peg HIM as Christian rock."
Probably why they were so upset then, if that's the one she went secular on.

"i think she's sexy too! in that nice wholesome clean white teeth kinda way."
http://www.worthprotectionsecurity.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/orbit-gum-girl-7264701.jpg
who would win?

nirvana begat so much, so many bands that don't even sound a bit like nirvana...so many kids picked up guitars because of them, friends i know that play electronic music now, or black metal, or weird psych or all kinds of shit...

I voted for Bandwagonesque because I think it will lose anyway.

No snark intended: what about Nirvana inspired so many bands to pick up guitars? The Pixies and Jane's Addiction were having gold records and lots of college hits. Was it Nirvana's multiplatinum that did it?

Yes.

Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Motley Crue etc. inspired lots of people to pick up guitars, too.

Sure, but by and large the bands they started sounded like Motley Crue; also I don't know that MC was as across the board successful as Nirvana was. (Not saying they weren't; I don't know if they were or not.)

Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Motley Crue etc. inspired lots of people to pick up guitars, too.

― xhuxk, Monday, July 6, 2009 10:50 PM (2 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah no shit but skot was acting like all nirvana spawned was post grunge shit like nickelback and creed

here's a perfect example i found - jay reatard....

Memphis-based punk rock juggernaut Jay Reatard has adopted a fistful of musical approaches since he first began recording in his bedroom, writing and recording frantic punk, synth punk, power pop and straightforward rock & roll tunes at a frantic pace since releasing his debut EP in 1998. Reatard was born Jay Lindsey and dropped out of school when he was 15, owing to boredom with conventional education and a problematic home life. Lindsey became interested in rock & roll when he heard Nirvana via MTV, and in his mid-teens he began writing songs. After seeing Memphis punk blues legends the Oblivians open for Rocket from the Crypt, Lindsey was inspired to try something similar and created the Reatards, which initially was just Lindsey, who sang, played guitar, and beat on a bucket with a stick for the benefit of his four-track cassette machine.

[i]Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Motley Crue etc. inspired lots of people to pick up guitars, too.

― xhuxk, Monday, July 6, 2009 10:50 PM (2 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink</i

xhuxk you were like getting big black 7 inches sent to you in the mail for free, you don't know the impact nirvana had to kids in 91 in small towns, pre-Internet

"yeah no shit but skot was acting like all nirvana spawned was post grunge shit like nickelback and creed"

i'm saying that all the stuff that i actually HEAR is the shitty stuff. like, on the radio.

thing is that probably 90% of the kids who were got into alt-rock/grunge/indie/etc after Nevermind loved Crue or GNR or Metallica or Def Leppard or Aerosmith and might've gone into rock at some point anyway before that stuff gave them a particular direction to go in that might've been a little more DIY and seemingly open to anyone who wanted to try.

amy grant paved the way for creed more than nirvana, I'm guessing. how many christian acts successfully crossed over before her?

kurt talking about shit like vaselines and raincoats and meat puppets and etc etc i think was just as important as nirvana's music

by and large the bands they started sounded like Motley Crue

xp Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if tons of people in '90s grunge and death metal and rap-rock and industrial and pop-punk and pop-country bands started out covering bands like the Crue and Poison etc. So I'm not sure about "sounded like" part.

Crue (who I don't even like much btw) had a #6 LP in 1985, a #2 in 1987, a #1 in 1989, and a #2 best-of in 1991. So they obviously sold pretty well, though right, Nirvana may have outsold them overall. Less certain Nirvana outsold Guns N Roses or Def Leppard or Bon Jovi, though. (Not denying Nirvana were influential, obviously; they were hugely influential. Just saying they're hardly alone in that.)

yeah totally -- I wasn't that into Nirvana and actually liked Pearl Jam more, but KC totally pointed me toward SY, Meat Puppets, etc. and that was in itself a huge deal for me.

xpost

Motley Crue, Pearl Jam, and GNR all outsold Nirvana.