XGAU VS PITCHFORK – THE POLL

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💣 vs 0.0

Master of Treacle, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 02:21 (three years ago) link

I mean, if newspapers in the '70s had the technology, would xgau have embedded a video of a monkey pissing in its own mouth for a review?

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 02:24 (three years ago) link

Christgau, flaws and all. (Unfair vote--Pitchfork came along after my interest in reading any kind of rock criticism had narrowed to a few people I'd been reading for years.)

clemenza, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 02:27 (three years ago) link

My taste probably overlaps about evenly with both (ie not that much), but Christgau is reliably more interesting to read, IMO.

o. nate, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 03:02 (three years ago) link

idk if this counts as a hot take but I read music writing to learn of music I think I will enjoy and will enrich my life, not (primarily) to delight in sparkling prose or whatever, and for all its flaws Pitchfork has been a good resource over the years. I mean, Wussy are fine and all, but.

it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 03:19 (three years ago) link

Essentially my position as well.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 03:24 (three years ago) link

Pitchfork I've been reading loyally since Ryan Schreiber/Brent Dicrescenzo days, but they've consistently improved, and they've aged right along with me.
And as for Christgau, I've never understood his shtick. Is he still alive?

enochroot, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 03:28 (three years ago) link

Real poll options:
Are you closer to 60 or closer to 40?

enochroot, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 03:29 (three years ago) link

but I read music writing to learn of music I think I will enjoy and will enrich my life

Exactly why I read Christgau (discovering Wussy being a perfect example); actually not that big a fan of the way he writes. (By which I simply mean the way he puts words together.)

And yes--much, much closer to 60!

clemenza, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 03:48 (three years ago) link

enchoroot - he is alive

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 03:54 (three years ago) link

in terms of sourcing music to enjoy, I find having a variety of writers more useful than having one guy whose sensibility/interest set seems to rarely overlap with my own

it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 04:21 (three years ago) link

This must surely be a joke but xgau for his stubbornness and tenacity. p4k has some good reviews but the institution of "p4k" amounts to less than the sum of its parts- obsession with consensus is nauseating.
both execrable tbh

the idea of sourcing music through reviews seems a bit old fashioned.

Cabo Weibo (卡波微博) (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 07:35 (three years ago) link

obsession with consensus is nauseating
^ goes for this board too (ducks)

Cabo Weibo (卡波微博) (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 07:38 (three years ago) link

hipster canon building is tedious but horny old hippies are worse

a nice person (Left), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 08:51 (three years ago) link

I had seen Christgau's name before and, of course, had heard Lou Reed calling him a toefucker on "Take No Prisoners" but I had never read a word of his, so when I joined ILX (quite a while ago now) and his name kept being brought up like he was the fucking Pope I was quite taken aback. Then I realized I had fallen into a den of music critics.

Boring blighters bloaters (Tom D.), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 09:28 (three years ago) link

Christgau's Rock Albums of the 70s book did get fairly widespread distribution in London bookshop at least, and iirc was even remaindered at one point. So that plus the Lou Reed and Sonic Youth mentions put him more on my radar than most US rockcrits.

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 10:07 (three years ago) link

the idea of sourcing music through reviews seems a bit old fashioned

what, I should be relying solely on the algorithm? fugouttaheeere

it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 12:49 (three years ago) link

I’m all for virtual crate-digging; that’s how I found out about Let’s Eat Grandma. I am also all for people putting music through their own contextual spaces and describing what they’re hearing and what that means to them because it often sharpens and enhances what I do or don’t like about a piece of music, or makes me curious about something I normally wouldn’t have paid attention to.

DJP, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 13:00 (three years ago) link

oh forgot to mention that Pfork pays a bunch of good and smart writers to gush over music I would likely have glossed over otherwise and none of them subject me to their gross hangups in the process

it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 13:09 (three years ago) link

hipster canon building is tedious but horny old hippies are worse

Poll needed.

I don't really source music through either of these (or Spotify algorithms) with any frequency tbh, although I can think of at least one album I discovered bc of Christgau (Gold Panda - Lucky Shiner). I imagine he was possibly responsible for putting some older music on the map in the first place.

I guess I'd be lonesome (Sund4r), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 13:24 (three years ago) link

For all its (un)intentional bouts of lulziness, Pitchfork has durably shaped my listenings habits, no doubt because I am a millennial. Xgau… not so much. The first time I came across his website (never read him in print, obv.) I remember thinking he had the worst, most offensive taste of any music critic I'd ever encountered up to that point.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 13:29 (three years ago) link

I don't know anything about the "taste" of Robert Christgau because I find his prose offensively unreadable. Like others here, I only know of him because of ILX, otherwise I'd never encountered his "writing" IRL. RIP.

All cars are bad (Euler), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 13:32 (three years ago) link

Haha, in the days when you could still read Christgau in print, there were a lot of critics with worse taste.xp

I guess I'd be lonesome (Sund4r), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 13:35 (three years ago) link

xgau for his stubbornness and tenacity.

see these are not key attributes i value highly in a critic. ive learned from xgau and discovered music through him (when ive been able to decipher his ridiculous prose), but the flipside of his stubbornness is reading him grind the same boring axes and exhibit the same boring blind spots over and over again, year after year after decade. thats also clearly a result of reading any individual critic cover the same beat for 40 years, but still. the variety of pfork has offered me much more over the years. obviously they have their own axes and blind spots and missteps, but at least those shift over the years as writers and regimes change.

turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 13:46 (three years ago) link

he had the worst, most offensive taste of any music critic I'd ever encountered up to that point.

Examples? I'm curious.

Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 13:47 (three years ago) link

one thing i like about reading xgau capsule reviews is that i can imagine the thoughts on the page passing through his head as he listens to the music

obviously there is also space in criticism for the poetry of "emotion recollected in tranquility" but i appreciate the dynamism of first-thought-best-thought

handsome boy modelling software (bernard snowy), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 13:55 (three years ago) link

Examples? I'm curious.

Prog and metal are utter blind spots for him as is anything without a clearly defined and sustained backbeat (yet he doesn't care for electronic music). He also seems to have a bone to pick with 'artsy' and/or European bands unless they happen to jive with his resolutely materialist hardmanning. As for specific offenders, see, well, most of my favourite albums of all time when I was in my late teens/early twenties: OK Computer, The Dark Side of the Moon, In the Court of the Crimson King, Paranoid, Dummy, Violator, Laughing Stock (lol).

pomenitul, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:01 (three years ago) link

i think xgau’s taste and prose are the only two things i like about him

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:03 (three years ago) link

as much as his five-sentences-folded-into-a-fist capsule reviews can be dense and obtuse his longform stuff is pretty clear and well-written, cf. his old pieces about elton john and al green

however i never want to know what he thinks of any woman

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:08 (three years ago) link

He's into M.I.A.! And Joni Mitchell! And Dusty Springfield!

pomenitul, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:09 (three years ago) link

Prog and metal are utter blind spots for him as is anything without a clearly defined and sustained backbeat (yet he doesn't care for electronic music). He also seems to have a bone to pick with 'artsy' and/or European bands unless they happen to jive with his resolutely materialist hardmanning.

He was possibly less bad in these regards than a lot of rock critics from the 70s-90s. The secret they didn't tell you is that 'rockists' hated rock most of all.

I guess I'd be lonesome (Sund4r), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:10 (three years ago) link

http://www.roberthilburnonline.com/

I guess I'd be lonesome (Sund4r), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:13 (three years ago) link

He 'got' Zep sooner than the others, it's true. I can't think of a single prog band that won his favour, however, save for the odd LP or two.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:13 (three years ago) link

yes, the revulsion toward "European" music/vibes/undertones, whatever the hell that meant, gets to me too.

I learned a fuck-ton about developing ideas in longform prose from him.

Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:15 (three years ago) link

He's certainly a very distinctive prose stylist, there's no quibbling with that.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:18 (three years ago) link

He wasn't an outlier there, sadly, including Pitchfork before some point in the mid-00s.2xp

I guess I'd be lonesome (Sund4r), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:18 (three years ago) link

xgau, 90% for style and 10% cuz occasionally i agree with him

difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:22 (three years ago) link

yeah he definitely has that late-70s 'NY vs London' macho pose baked into his perspective more or less permanently

turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:24 (three years ago) link

in terms of who shaped my taste the most over the course of my life, it's pfork, but my taste prob resembles xgau's more at this point. i'll let you know when pfork accept my pitch for a sunday review of in a special way though

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:24 (three years ago) link

All in all, 'you have emotions, LOL' is the possibly the aspect of his shtick I find most off-putting.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:30 (three years ago) link

It was sort of a turning point in pop crit when this happened: pfork reassess yes

I guess I'd be lonesome (Sund4r), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:31 (three years ago) link

*possibly the aspect

xp

pomenitul, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:31 (three years ago) link

Funny because Pfork still felt prog-skeptical to me until the turn of the 10s, more or less.

xp

pomenitul, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 14:32 (three years ago) link

as much as his five-sentences-folded-into-a-fist capsule reviews can be dense and obtuse his longform stuff is pretty clear and well-written, cf. his old pieces about elton john and al green

however i never want to know what he thinks of any woman

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, November 10, 2020 9:08 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is correct. these are both in the Rolling Stone Illustrated History of Rock and are both great, as is his piece in there about the Stones.

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 15:38 (three years ago) link

His book reviews are my favorites of his recent publications.

Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 15:45 (three years ago) link

I’m all for virtual crate-digging; that’s how I found out about Let’s Eat Grandma. I am also all for people putting music through their own contextual spaces and describing what they’re hearing and what that means to them because it often sharpens and enhances what I do or don’t like about a piece of music, or makes me curious about something I normally wouldn’t have paid attention to.

― DJP, Tuesday, November 10, 2020 1:00 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

otm

Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 15:53 (three years ago) link

Looking over their respective top 50s for 2019, there were three albums on the Pitchfork list I listened to multiple times and liked a lot (Blood Incantation, Weyes Blood, Big Thief; missed the Fennesz somehow?) and none on Christgau's (listened more to UFOF than Two Hands, except "Not"; need to spend more time with 75 Dollar Bill). Otoh, I do admire his chutzpah in ranking a Sonic Youth live recording from 2008 in the top 10 of the year.

https://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/best-albums-2019/
https://www.yearendlists.com/2020/01/robert-christgau-dean-s-list-2019

I guess I'd be lonesome (Sund4r), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 16:07 (three years ago) link

Blood Incantation

haha inzanejonny has made them such a meme i giggle when i think of them now

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 16:16 (three years ago) link

Idk what that is but album was great; never got around to buying it but I should.

I guess I'd be lonesome (Sund4r), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 16:18 (three years ago) link

Of the albums I heard from Xgau's top 50 of 2019, I enjoyed: Billie Eilish, Purple Mountains, Kim Gordon, Danny Brown, Tanya Tagaq, Jamila Woods. That's six.

p4k's: Angel Olsen, Fennesz, Weyes Blood, Purple Mountains, Jamila Woods, Billie Eilish, Kim Gordon, Burna Boy, MIKE, Nilüfer Yanya, Thom Yorke, Blood Incantation, Danny Brown. That's thirteen, and only Tanya Tagaq is missing if you set the two lists side by side.

So there you have it.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 16:29 (three years ago) link

he says he's making more from his subscription model than he ever suspected.

Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 18:15 (three years ago) link

I'm glad to hear that, but I assumed the previous poster meant that he should be "deplatformed" (without an official soapbox, since no-one is publishing him in a regular forum).

Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 18:18 (three years ago) link

orig included a note loling at how unfortunate “tick” is so close on the page to prissily [sic]ing another writer over using “media” in the singular— but ended up having to admit that the monolithic concept the latter solecism betrays is actually relevant to building a case that a guy thinks in microwaved adornoisms. lol tick tho yeah

difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 18:35 (three years ago) link

^booming post

Indieland Phil and Indieland Don (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 18:56 (three years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-dpqVdKG9I

difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 19:05 (three years ago) link

I can't remember which critic wrote about this (it was dated before 2006), but it was someone unaffiliated with the Village Voice and apparently Christgau called him up and badgered him to use a thesaurus. It was probably in response to a Pazz & Jop ballot.

birdistheword, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 19:19 (three years ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Monday, 30 November 2020 00:01 (three years ago) link

I ain’t no boomer, I voted for the fork.

pomenitul, Monday, 30 November 2020 00:07 (three years ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 00:01 (three years ago) link

loll

Judi Dench's Human Hand (methanietanner), Tuesday, 1 December 2020 00:05 (three years ago) link

looooool

pomenitul, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 00:07 (three years ago) link

This poll's victor will take on Fanta in due course.


I’m afraid we’ll need a repoll for the runoff to become a reality.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 00:13 (three years ago) link

https://atothejay.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/52pickup.jpg

tylerw, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 00:13 (three years ago) link

otm

pomenitul, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 00:15 (three years ago) link

oh cool they both lost

imago, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 00:21 (three years ago) link

Next do john peel vs. wfmu

Deflatormouse, Tuesday, 1 December 2020 06:16 (three years ago) link


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